April 24, 2026
The Empire Club of Canada Presents
The Honourable Tim Hodgson: One Year of Nation Building: Looking Back, Moving Forward
Chairman: Saurabh Popat, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Moderator
The Honourable Lisa Raitt, Vice-Chair, Office of the CEO, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
Distinguished Guest Speaker
The Honourable Tim Hodgson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources
Head Table Guests
Trevor Gardner, Head, Global Investment Banking Coverage, RBC Capital Markets
James Scongack, Chief Operating Officer & Executive Vice President, Bruce Power
Welcome Address by Saurabh Popat, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon. My name is Saurabh Popat. I’m the chair of the board here at the Empire Club of Canada, and your host for today’s event.
To formally begin, I want to acknowledge that we are gathering on the Traditional and Treaty Lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat Peoples. I encourage you all to learn more about the Traditional Territory on which you work and live.
Now, today’s event would not be possible without the generous support of our incredible sponsors. The Empire Club is a nonprofit organization, and our sponsors generously support the club, and make these events possible and complimentary for our online viewers to attend. So, please join me in thanking our Lead Sponsors, Bruce Power and RBC Capital Markets. Thank you. Thank you to our VIP Reception Sponsors, Waste Connections of Canada, Alto, Algoma Steel, BMO, Cameco, Candu Energy Inc. and AtkinsRéalis Company, Enbridge, Global Public Affairs, LiUNA, McKinsey & Company, the Ontario Road Builders Association, and TD, thank you all. And thank you to our Supporting Sponsors, BWXT, CAP or CAPP, Humber Polytechnic, Hudbay Minerals Inc, Invenergy, Northland Power, Siemens Energy, TC Energy, Vale, and Trigon Pacific Terminals. Thank you all. We also deeply appreciate the ongoing support of our Lead Season Sponsors, Bruce Power, Hydro One and National Bank Capital Markets, and our VIP Reception Season Sponsors, Ellis Don, McKinsey & Company, the Ontario Road Builders Association, and Waste Connections of Canada. And finally, thank you to our Media Partner, the Toronto Star and our AV Partner, Bespoke Audio Visual. Thank you.
If you have questions for our speakers, please scan the QR code found on your program, or through the Q&A function, if you’re online. For those of you online, if you require technical assistance, please use the chat feature.
Now one year ago, the new federal government took office, led by Prime Minister Mark Carney. Since then, the government has been navigating turbulent economic headwinds and choppy trade waters, to say the least. The challenge has been made clear, to think bold, to act big, and invest in building Canada up. Before us is the opportunity to diversify our global reach, and reclaim lost ground. And while being collaborative, ensure that we are competitive on multiple fronts, including energy, natural resources, and AI. One year in, the sense of urgency remains with results dependent on continued agility and sharp focus, which brings us to the conversation that we are having today.
Canada, as we all know, is facing urgent and dynamic challenges in a world that seems to be shifting daily. That is why we need to leverage our natural strengths. For as Minister Hodgson and Prime Minister Carney like to say, “We must build strength right here at home.” And we must build at speeds not seen in generations, particularly in our strategic energy sector. For the past year, that is what Canada’s government has been attempting to do. And that is what brings our keynote speaker here today.
Now, earlier this week, Minister Hodgson appeared on CBC’s The Current, and he framed our collective challenge clearly and simply. He said that our allies are desperate for our reliable, rules-based provider of energy. And that that’s an opportunity for Canada to step up in the world, and to lead. Today, Minister Hodgson will report on what’s been a pivotal year for our country, and share insights as to what comes next.
Now, conversations of this scale require great partners. So, I want to recognize our Lead Sponsor today, RBC Capital Markets. Trevor Gardner is head of global investment banking coverage at RBC Capital Markets. RBC plays a central role in financing the major projects that drive our country. Please join me, in welcoming Trevor to the podium.
Opening Remarks by Trevor Gardner, Head, Global Investment Banking Coverage, RBC Capital Markets
Thank you, Saurabh. And thanks to the Empire Club of Canada for hosting today’s luncheon, and convening such an important conversation on Canada’s economic future. It’s terrific to see this room packed on such an important topic. As Saurabh mentioned, I’m Trevor Gardner. I’m here to represent RBC. We’re really proud to be here, and sponsoring this important conversation. We’ve long sponsored investments in Canada, working alongside governments and companies in all sectors to grow their businesses, and compete globally. We’ve been steadfast in our support of important sectors like energy and mining through a range of market environments, public criticism, and economic cycles. We see our role as supporting Canadian industry, taking Canada to the world, and bringing the world to Canada.
Canada’s economic opportunity rests on a powerful combination. Abundant resources, cutting edge innovation, talented people, and democratic stability. We are seeing this play out in real time in client dialogues all over the world. Critical resources are now strategic assets, and the race to secure them is intensifying globally. Canada truly has a defining opportunity to be a trusted, stable supplier of the energy and critical resources our allies depend on, whether that’s oil, natural gas, minerals, or a range of power solutions. We’re not just resource rich though. We’re innovative and we’re reliable. That’s our edge. As an example of our innovation, look no further than the nuclear sector. We are advancing world leading technology, coupling our resource strength with technical prowess and cutting edge innovation that the world needs and wants. But the world’s changing rapidly. We need to act with pace to seize the opportunity in front of us. And delivering on that edge means aligning capital, policy, and execution. That’s how we turn Canada’s potential into prosperity.
This brings me to today’s guest, the Honourable Tim Hodgson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, and Member of Parliament for Markham—Thornhill. Minister Hodgson brings a distinguished career spanning both global finance and public service. He spent over two decades in senior banking roles, where he advised institutional clients across major markets. He later served as Special Advisor to the Bank of Canada, was Chair of Hydro One prior to his election, guiding one of Canada’s most important infrastructure companies through a period of transformation, and strengthened focus on long-term value creation.
In his role as Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, since May 2025, Minister Hodgson has brought a pragmatic, action-oriented approach to pivotal nation-building projects. He played a leading role in advancing Canada’s work under the G7 Minerals Production Alliance, mobilizing close to $20 billion, while strengthening Canada’s position as a trusted energy and resource supplier globally. We see it every day, and we hear it from clients. We’re encouraged by his open and accessible approach to industry, capital markets, and other stakeholders. With Minister Hodgson’s global perspective and deep understanding of Canada’s strengths, we look forward to his reflections on the path ahead. Please join me, in welcoming the Honourable Tim Hodgson.
The Honourable Tim Hodgson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources
Thanks so much, for that kind introduction. Hello everyone, bonjour a tous. And thank you to the Empire Club for having me. It’s such a pleasure to be here, and to see so many familiar faces in the crowd. I also want to give a special shout-out to a few people. In particular, the former Ministers of Energy and Natural Resources who are here, Lisa Raitt and Seamus O’Regan. I’m standing on your shoulders. Thank you for your service. I also want to—I know there are many people who have served in many capacities, but I want to give a shout-out to currently serving Julie Dzerowicz, the MP for Davenport, one of my colleagues who’s here today. She’s gonna report back to the PM on whether I screw up, or not.
So, ladies and gentlemen, a year ago today, Canadians were four days away from casting our ballots in an election that I believe marked a turning point for this country. You’ll remember it had been a tumultuous period in Ottawa, to say the least, across the country and around the world. For the first time in decades, the question of Canada’s survival felt truly existential. From coast-to-coast-to-coast, Canadians were asking ourselves not only who we are as a country, but what do we want to be as a country? And how do we survive and thrive in a world where maybe there’s no free trade? For a year now, we’ve been answering these questions together as one nation, a nation with a proud identity, and a unique history. A nation that, yes, has some distinct challenges, but also has an unmatched resource base anywhere in the world, and the foundation to do some truly great things.
But ladies and gentlemen, a foundation does not a house make. That is why our government, and especially my job as Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, has in many ways one singular mission, to build Canada. For too long, Canadians felt overly secure in the hands that we had been dealt, abundant resources, a world order generous to middle powers like Canada, and a social safety net that provided a decent quality of life for most Canadians. To return to the house metaphor, for a moment, perhaps most of all, we enjoyed the tranquility of a neighbourhood in the world which we grew up in, with a neighbour to our south who cooperated with us, who helped protect us, and shared generously with us. It’s now clear that world has changed. Economic integration with our neighbour, once a strength, has been weaponized against us. It’s time we have to stop relying on neighbourhood watch, and install our own security system.
On April 28th, 2025, Canadians told us, and each other, one very clear thing. They no longer wanted to be complacent about the neighbourhood or the world we live in. They wanted a government that would not just govern Canada, but protect it, and fight for it in this new world. Canadians also knew that, while legitimate and important, we had to put our internal differences aside. Because if we were divided, we could be conquered. And we may have had our rose-coloured glasses ripped off rather abruptly, but Canadians are now prepared to see this country and the world as it is, not as we wish it to be. We have elected a Prime Minister capable of leading a whole coalition of nations, looking to do just that. To build strategic autonomy in a world where great powers feel unbounded by rules, by traditions, or by economic norms. I think it’s safe to say that over the past year, we have rethought almost everything about our place in the world. I hope you feel like your federal government has been doing that with you, and that you know that we have your back in this new world, which often feels dangerous and uncertain.
Just a week after I was sworn in to Prime Minister Carney’s cabinet as Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, I flew to Calgary, and gave a speech in a room not too dissimilar to this one. I said Canada needed to stop admiring its advantages, and start using them. Because energy and natural resources do not make us prosperous when they are sitting in the ground. I said a country does not become more sovereign simply by saying it wants to be more sovereign. We do it by thinking and acting like a country that knows how to build for itself. That means we need to build a Canada defined by delivery, not delay. That premise, delivery, not delay, is in many ways, it has been the organizing idea behind my first year in this role as Minister. When I took office, the thought of building big things like we used to again felt nearly impossible. We were mired in slow bureaucracy, duplicative, overly complicated permitting and regulatory processes, and apathy about the need to build.
Ladies and gentlemen, we still have a long way to go. But a year into our mandate, it no longer feels impossible. Let me speak plainly about what we’ve done over the past year to transform Canada. The first thing we needed to do was improve the federal government’s ability to move with clarity, with purpose, and with speed. That’s why standing up the Major Projects Office was so important. Too often, it is assumed that the problem in Canada is that we have overly high standards. On the contrary, I believe our standards are a strength. They build social license, and they mean we do things right the first time around. But the path to achieving and evaluating these standards across government was fragmented, duplicative and difficult to navigate. It made public and private sector alike feel like even the best projects and ideas would be crushed under the weight of bureaucracy.
Launched last August, just a few months after we passed the Building Canada Act, the Major Projects Office attacks this very problem. It creates a clear path, a one-stop-shop for proponents, and a place in the federal government that represents a laser-focused mission to get big things built. We’ve now referred 15 projects and 6 transformative strategies to this office, representing over $126 billion of new investment in this country. And ladies and gentlemen, we are just getting started. That matters because one of the quiet but damaging habits Canada had developed over the years was a tendency to speak in general terms about growth, while hesitating to act on specific opportunities to create growth. But countries do not become stronger by speaking generally. They become stronger by making concrete decisions about real projects. And that’s exactly what we’re doing at the MPO.
That same focus on practicality and specifics has shaped our work with provinces, especially when it comes to signing a first-of-a-kind memorandum of understanding with Alberta. The Canadian Alberta MOU signalled something simple but powerful, not only do Canada and Alberta share the goal of being a clean and conventional energy superpower, but we are prepared to put politics aside, to achieve that for Canadians. I was in the room when the MOU was signed. It was incredibly powerful to watch Albertans, literally with tears of joy and relief in their eyes, express that they once again felt like they had a place in Canada. It was an expression of the best of what Canada has to offer. Diverse perspectives, working towards a more united and a prosperous nation. That’s what we’re trying to do. We continue to work hard on a daily basis with Alberta on agreements on carbon pricing, and the Pathways Project, and we look forward to receiving Alberta’s pipeline proposal, and finalizing a framework for AI data centres by July 1st. Early wins from the MOU include signing agreements on methane emissions, and on One Project, One Review, less than three years after we were fighting over environmental assessments at the Supreme Court. That’s what unity looks like.
And there’s more good news. We’ve moved faster on One Project, One Review than any government in Canadian history. We’ve worked province-by-province, to make progress on agreements that reflect realistic yet ambitious agreements for goals and standards. We’ve done this with Alberta. We’ve done this with Manitoba. We’ve done this with Ontario. We’ve done this with New Brunswick. We’ve done this with Nova Scotia. We’ve done this with Newfoundland and Labrador. We’ve done this with Prince Edward Island, and we already have an agreement with British Columbia. And again, we’re not done. It’s been just 12 months, but ladies and gentlemen, Canada is building.
Let me give you an example. The Ksi Lisims LNG Project. A $30 billion Indigenous-led project with emissions 94% below the global average proved the point with One Project, One Review. When it was approved by the government of British Columbia at 4 p.m. last fall, and by the federal government at 4:30 the same day. That’s what One Project, One Review does for project proponents.
The last time we built a new uranium mine and it was approved for construction in Canada, was in 2004. In the first two months of 2026, we approved two new mines, which together will produce enough uranium to power 40 million homes. We approved the Taylor to Gordondale Pipeline Expansion, which will significantly reduce our reliance on other countries for the diluent that moves our oil to market. We approved this not only because it’s a good project, but because we are no longer afraid of the p-word. Because we recognize that projects should be about prosperity, not politics.
Now, I’m excited to announce another pipeline project approval for the Sunrise Expansion in British Columbia, that was announced this morning. This project owned by Enbridge, and most importantly, 38 First Nations, is approved today, and scheduled to start construction this summer. It will provide up to 300 million cubic feet a day of additional transportation capacity on British Columbia’s major natural gas transmission system. This will enable us to heat more homes, businesses, and hospitals, and schools in British Columbia, in addition to providing gas for electric power generation industrial manufacturing processes, which are expanding in British Columbia. This expansion ensures British Columbia has enough gas to supply an LNG export facility like Woodfibre LNG, which will be the first net zero LNG export facility in the world. This project, the Sunrise Project, will add more than $3 billion to Canada’s GDP, and generate over $700 million in tax revenues for new roads, new hospitals, and new schools in British Columbia. At peak production, it will create 2,500 new jobs, including for local Indigenous communities. And in fact, to date, more than $52 million has already been spent by Enbridge on hiring and procuring services from Indigenous businesses.
Ladies and gentlemen, these are not random examples. They represent a broader change in Canada’s posture. For too long, we became accustomed to mistaking delay for seriousness. But seriousness is not measured by how long it takes to make a decision; it’s measured by whether those decisions are thoughtful, credible, and made in a timeframe that actually matters for the proponent.
The same larger story can be seen in our work to diversify trade and exports. For years, Canada talked about turning our immense gas resources into the ability to be a major global LNG exporter. Well, look at what’s going on in the Middle East today. Last summer, the first LNG cargos left Canada for Asia, marking a new era for Canadian energy exports, and giving us really important cards in the world that we live in. Since then, we have also reset our relationship with China and India, the second and fourth-largest markets on Earth. These are two markets we had previously left untapped for other countries to supply. Now, we are opening these enormous markets up to thousands of Canadian farmers, miners, energy producers, and small businesses. And the Prime Minister is far from finished. In less than 12 months, he has signed 20 new trade deals on 4 continents, touching almost every sector of the economy. These trade deals allow Canadian companies to grow here at home, and international companies to come and invest here in Canada.
Our determination to build can also be seen in the critical mineral sector. Right now, global production and processing are concentrated and controlled by hegemonic powers in a way that threaten our economy and our national security. It does not have to be that way. We have the rocks the world wants beneath our feet. And we have one of the world’s best mining sectors right here in Canada. We are now moving urgently—[Applause] thank you—we are now moving urgently to use these resources to create capacity to produce and process critical minerals domestically. That matters not only for our economic growth and resilience, but also because when we put cards in our hands that others want, it gives us influence in the world and in our upcoming trade negotiations.
To that end, in 2025 we used our G7 presidency to launch the Critical Minerals Production Alliance. Over the last 6 months since its official launch, we have announced 56 deals in the critical mineral space with every G7 country, plus Finland, plus Denmark, plus Australia, plus Estonia, plus Luxembourg, and plus Ukraine. These deals unlock $18.5 billion to be invested in Canadian projects. These are real dollars going to real, specific projects, that will be selling minerals around the world shortly.
The same broader strategy has shaped our work in the forestry sector, which I often say was really the canary in the coal mine, when it comes to American tariffs. It is said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Well, I spent part of my childhood in a forestry town, and unfortunately, I saw firsthand that that is exactly what we have been doing, as we faced five different tariff wars with Americans, which have devastated Canadian towns from coast-to-coast. That’s why our strategy is about pivoting to grow. Our goal for the Canadian forestry sector is not only for the sector to survive, but thrive again, in every one of the 300 rural and Indigenous communities who depend on forests for their livelihood. The US market is not how we unlock this prosperity going forward. Instead, we’re looking to new international partners who are hungry for Canadian wood, and baking that into the deals we’re signing.
In fact, in January, when I was in China with the Prime Minister, one of the major areas of trade collaboration we agreed on was in the forestry sector, opening up new markets for Canadian producers. We’re also pivoting inward, with respect to using our own wood. That’s not inherently a bad thing, despite some traditional orthodoxy. I believe strongly that the Canadian forestry sector should benefit more from Canadian customers, and Canadian customers should benefit more from the Canadian forestry sector. That’s why Build Canada Homes is focused on using Canadian mass timber to build affordable homes here in Canada. These were the two challenges I gave the Federal Forest Sector Transformational Task Force, when they started their work in January. Last week, I received their report, and I’m excited to announce it will inform a targeted new National Forest Strategy, which we are developing in partnership with provinces, territories, and Indigenous Peoples, and which I look forward to sharing with Canadians later this year.
So, let’s talk about how we move forward from here. I’m proud of the work this government has done to Build Canada Strong so far. But if we can meet our goals in just one year, our goals were not ambitious enough. Friends, the stakes are only rising. Something the volatility in the Middle East over the last two months is brought into sharp focus. That means the next phase of our work to Build Canada Strong will be even more important. So, as I did in Calgary one year ago, I’m going to spell out my year two goals as your energy minister, and ask you and all Canadians to hold me accountable.
First, Canada needs a coherent strategy for electricity and nuclear energy. Because every major ambition we have, from AI to advanced manufacturing to mineral processing, depends on reliable, affordable electricity. By this time next year, not only will these strategies be announced, but they will be in their implementation phases.
Second, we need to keep moving big projects from approval to final investment decision to construction, and ultimately, to production. In the spring of 2027, you will see projects not just having been added to the Major Projects Office, but at least 5 to 10 new projects having reached final investment decision or broken ground.
Third, I want our energy and natural resources sector to play the strategically important role it should be playing, as Canada’s strongest cards in the CUSMA renegotiation. I spent my life doing deals. Ultimately, it’s about knowing which cards are your best, and playing them effectively. Well, ladies and gentlemen, energy, electricity, forest products, minerals, these are our best cards.
Fourth, we need to complete the practical work underway on the Canada-Alberta MOU. And yes, that includes the upcoming steps in the discussion on a new West Coast pipeline, a project that could add an average of $31.4 billion to our GDP every year for the next decade, equivalent to increasing Canada’s entire GDP by 1.1% annually. But equally importantly, it also includes work to unlock a step change in the carbon intensity of Canada’s oil sands, and to take a massive step towards net zero through the Pathways Project, a project that, as Premier Smith said, when we spoke on a panel together at Sierra Week in Houston, will future-proof our oil industry. The MOU also includes plans for nuclear and AI data centres in Alberta, the new export infrastructure across Western Canada. It resets how we think about Indigenous participation in natural resource projects. It is all of these pieces that make the MOU so important for Alberta, but also for Canada.
Fifth, and most importantly, I want it to be clear to every person in this country that their life is better in the spring of 2027 than it is today in the spring of 2026. That means it needs to be safer, it needs to be more affordable, and it needs to be more optimistic.
Friends, the plans that I’ve been describing are mostly long-term. That’s the nature of the industries for which I’m responsible, and the scale of the national challenge in front of us. However, I believe in many ways that this challenge is the antidote to the political quick fixes, the clickbait, and the band-aid solutions that governments of many stripes have employed for years. At the same time, we know that Canadians need to be able to get a good job, buy a comfortable home, and afford your groceries today. The Prime Minister gets that. Your government gets that. That’s why we cancelled the GST for first-time home buyers, the consumer carbon price, and the federal excise tax on gas and diesel until Labour Day. It’s why you will get the first Canada Groceries and Essentials benefit in your bank account on July 5th. And it’s why we cut taxes for 22 million Canadians. Because that is really what government is about. The hard, steady, practical work of making Canadians’ lives better tomorrow than they are today.
So, in conclusion, history—and for those of you who are closer to my age with gray hair, experience—tells us that nations are tested not when everything is going well, but when crisis strikes. That is when you find out whether a country still knows how to act on its advantages. I believe Canada knows how to do that. Over the last year, I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Our government is honoured to play its part, and I’m immensely grateful to have someone like Prime Minister Carney steering the ship for all of us. But we need to understand in a democracy, a government is only as inspired and only as ambitious as the people from whom it gets its mandate. I believe that Canadians are ready to make tough decisions again. I believe Canadians are ready to build big things again, and take seriously the responsibility that comes with our resource wealth, our geography, and our position in the world. We understand with newfound clarity that the privilege of economic strength is not something future generations of Canadians will automatically inherit, but something each generation must renew for the Canadians that will follow them.
Today, I see a Canada that will no longer be seen as a commentator, or a caretaker of a world order that has ceased to exist. I see a Canada that is now a leader of a new world order that moves past idealism to operate with clear-eyed pragmatism, and effectiveness today. I’m grateful for the opportunity to look back on this first year with you here today. But if I can leave you with one thing, it’s not something to look back on in 2025; it is what we want our children and our grandchildren to look back on when they judge how we met this moment. Simply put, my hope for them is they will see that when the world changed, this generation, this generation of Canadians, did not yearn for times past, or didn’t languish in nostalgia. Instead, we got to work and built Canada strong for us, and most importantly for them. Thank you very much. Merci beaucoup.
Saurabh Popat
Thank you so much, Minister Hodgson. Thank you. Thank you. You clearly articulated what is at stake for all of us. Canada must build, and build together. Securing our energy networks and delivering on major projects is essential to our economic future, and our national competitiveness. Turning that vision into reality is going to take immense coordination, and it requires organizations that know how to build and operate on a massive scale.
That brings me to our Lead Season Sponsor, Bruce Power. Bruce Power plays an extremely critical role in providing reliable, clean energy to our province. They understand exactly what it takes to execute long-term infrastructure investments. We’re so pleased to welcome James Scongack, Chief Operating Officer and Executive Vice President at Bruce Power to the podium.
James Scongack, Chief Operating Officer & Executive Vice President, Bruce Power
Great. Well, thank you very much, and great remarks, Minister. I’m gonna change my pre-prepared remarks after seeing the Minister’s list, so I love seeing nuclear energy right on number one there. So, I will take yes for an answer, Minister.
But all joking aside, you know, Minister, I was thinking about the most appropriate way to introduce this next segment with somebody I’m gonna introduce in a moment. And as I reflect on—and all of us represent different companies, we have different interests, but fundamentally, I really love your theme on people, all coming down to people, and I reflect, at the Bruce Power site, any given week, we have 10,000 workers, some of them represented by Joe Mancinelli and the folks at LiUNA, 16 other building trades, Power Workers’ Union, Society United Professionals, 10,000 people every single week that call that home. And they’re the ones that make all this work happen. And the work that they are doing on our site and sites all across Canada and Ontario, they’re developing the long-term infrastructure that will be there for, literally, the next half a century.
But when I reflect on seeing those men and women do amazing work every day, I always reflect—and you know, the Bruce site is no different than a lot of other infrastructure, whether it’s transmission, pipelines, gas, you name it, hydroelectric facilities. The reason why we have the standard of living and the opportunities that we have here in Canada today, in large part, is because of the bold actions that people took, in the case of nuclear, in the 1970’s and ’80s. And because people had the conversations and took the actions then, much similar to what the minister is challenging us with today, is the reason why we’re able to have this conversation. So, it’s not just about us in the room. One of the things I learned about the minister is when you’re the minister of natural resources—I see former Minister O’Regan here, somebody I’m gonna introduce in a minute, who is a former minister—when you’re sitting beside the minister at the head table, everybody has an ask. And I’m sure you all have your ask, and that’s okay. That’s democracy, and that’s the business we’re in. But at the end of the day, what we are doing now is far bigger than any one of our asks. We’re setting the foundation for that next generation.
And so, with that, I’d like to welcome to the stage a former minister of natural resources, also an amazing champion of our electricity sector, and our nuclear sector. I don’t wanna have an arm wrestle here between three ministers who was more pro-nuclear, but you guys can talk about it, if you want. Three musketeers, as the minister said. But Lisa Raitt was a very strong minister of natural resources during a very challenging time, I can tell you, for nuclear power in Canada, for our electricity sector. And it’s great that the Honourable Lisa Raitt will be leading today’s discussion. So welcome, Minister Raitt.
The Honourable Lisa Raitt, Vice-Chair, Office of the CEO, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
I’m running because we don’t have a lot of time, and I have so many questions for you, Minister. Thank you very much, James. I appreciate the kind introduction. Minister, I’m gonna give you an odd compliment to start, but take it from one political hack: you give a good speech. That was really good. You got a standing ovation from over 750 people here today, so you should feel really good about it. And remember that feeling, as I ask you the following questions. No. Kidding aside, you do, you give a really good speech. But you come from a very different background. Did you have to give speeches like this at Goldman Sachs?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
No.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
But you were in the Canadian Armed Forces, you were at Goldman Sachs. So, what have you brought with you now that you’re in the public service and what was the biggest surprise, other than how slow they work?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
It’s just an easy question, just softball right down the—look, I often thought about when I was a kid, my father was in the Canadian Armed Forces. We lived on radar bases across the country, from little fishing towns in the southeastern part of Nova Scotia…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…where the lobster fishermen come in…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…to a logging town in the northern tip of Vancouver Island, and every little town in between. And you know, I’ve thought a lot about what that did, and it makes me understand that we have the greatest country in the world.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
M’hm (affirmative).
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
From one end of this country to the other, from coast-to-coast-to-coast, we have Canadians who are proud to be Canadians. They have different backgrounds, they have different ways of earning a living. Every one of them deserves our respect, and every one of them deserves our support. And different people are hurting in different ways right now. And I think, you know, people used to say, wasn’t it really hard to move around? Like, I moved every year-and-a-half to two years. But I look back on it, and I think it was one of the greatest gifts I could get, because I had the chance to see and live in all these different parts of the country. What was the second part? That was the easy part of the question.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Just challenges. Any challenges moving over into the private sector, or from the private sector to the public sector?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
So, I think the public gives the civil service a really hard time.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
M’hm (affirmative).
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
And it’s easy to crap on the bureaucracy? But we need to understand that the way our system works, we elect representatives to run the ministries.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
M’hm (affirmative).
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
So, almost by definition—you know this—the person who’s sitting as a minister overseeing a ministry is new to that. They may have been a school teacher, they may have been a lawyer, they may have been a doctor, they may have been an engineer. But they’ve chosen to serve their country, go through all of the fun of an election, sit in question period and get grilled. And then they sit and have this responsibility over top of a ministry that they’re figuring out how to run. That’s the way our system works. And so, our civil service is designed to make sure the decisions that are getting made are being made thoughtfully and carefully, and they’re good decisions. And so, the civil service is really designed to reduce the risk of some newbie minister coming in, and thinking they know everything in the world, and just starting making random decisions. Well, you know what, that works really well when we’re in a normal place in the world.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
But when we’re in a place in the world where we need to move at speeds we haven’t moved since World War II. When we have to do things that are really hard, and really uncomfortable, and aren’t gonna make everybody happy. The modus operandi of let me help you reduce risk minister, which is the way the system is built, doesn’t necessarily serve us. And I find myself having a conversation, saying to my colleagues in the civil service, who helped me immensely, I don’t need you to help me take less risk.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
M’hm (affirmative).
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
We need to take risk in the world we’re in. I need you to help me take smart risk.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
M’hm (affirmative).
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
And that’s—and we need to take it quickly. Because we don’t have time to do things at the pace that we were used to doing them. And that’s the new thing. And it wasn’t really until I got there and understood, it’s easy to just slag the civil service. But it’s really, it’s important that we understand it’s built to do something. That we’re asking it to do new things right now, and we’re designing new ways to do that with them, and they’re responding. So that, you said what was the biggest surprise? It was…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
That’s it.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…how our system works, and how we need to tweak it. We need to make sure we tweak it, so that it can do what we need it to do today.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yep. I agree with you. You mentioned electricity in your speech today. Do you think Canadians would be surprised to know that we’re probably better connected grid-wise to the United States than we are amongst ourselves in Canada?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Because I was chair of Hydro One, I’m not surprised. But I….
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Not you; Canadians writ large, though.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Look, I think a lot of Canadians are, and you’re absolutely right. We have 13 islanded electricity grids. It is way easier for Ontario to trade electricity with New York or with Michigan than it is to trade with Québec or Manitoba. In the new world that we’re in, that doesn’t make sense. In a world where we’re trying to shave the requirement for peak generation, and the obvious way to do that is time shift, which is moving from east to west, we need to improve the grid interconnectedness. And I talked about as one of my first challenge to me…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…is to deliver the electricity strategy. I’ve said a long time I don’t scoop your boss, but I don’t think it’ll be a surprise that we need to better connect our 13 islanded grids, and that’ll be a big part of the electricity strategy.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. In your speech when you were talking about the Sunshine Expansion—congratulations by the way, congratulations to Enbridge, as well, as well as those 38 First Nations. There was one line that really caught my attention, though? And in that line, you talk about how that the gas is gonna be used to produce electricity, which is a bit of a bold statement in Canada today. As you promote gas around the world, in that sentence, you seem to be promoting gas here domestically in Canada. Can I make that inference there, do you think?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
So, if we look at the total system, the vast majority of emissions are from end emissions.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Right.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Most of those today are burning direct fossil fuels.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Right.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
If we can electrify all those things, we will have a massive impact on the total carbon footprint. Today, Canada’s grid is on average 80% carbon-free. Again, I’m not scooping, but I think everyone kinda understands we’re gonna need to at least double the size of our grid in the next couple of decades. If we can just stay flat at 80%, and move from delivering that transportation, and heating, and all the things that we do that today are all done by burning fossil fuels, and moving it to electricity generation that is on average 80% carbon-free, the benefits from staying at 80% will massively overwhelm…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
M’hm (affirmative).
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…the incremental gas to stay at 20%. So, we have to look at the total picture, we have to look at the total carbon wallet, we have to look at what it costs to eliminate the last bits of carbon.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
And is that the best thing to do, or is it to allow a little bit of gas generation in the mix, when we’re moving something that’s 100% carbon to something that’s electric, and now 80% carbon free. And I say that also saying that we are gonna invest in an incredibly focused way and a determined way. Canada has one of the best industries around carbon capture and storage…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…around direct air capture. We are gonna work every technology to, yes, if there is gas in the system, reduce the carbon emissions at that gas.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Okay. The, speaking of oil and gas, how’s your relationship with Danielle Smith? Things going well?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
So, yeah.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
You got a deadline. You kind of missed a deadline.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
I’ll….
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Can you fill us in?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Yeah. I’ll tell you a little anecdote. We were in Houston a couple of weeks ago. So….
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Everyone’s very nervous, as I asked you that question. It was allowed. It was allowed.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
We were in Houston a couple of weeks ago, and we were coming up on a panel like this, and we were walking up. And I leaned over to her, and I said, “You know, they want us to fight.” And she said, “Well, let’s give them something.” Okay. So, I was talking about energy and economic growth, and blah, blah, blah. And then they asked her a question, and she said, “You know, I’m the one usually talking about energy and economic growth, and how important it is to Canada, and the minister seems to be talking all about that. So, I’m gonna talk about the environment.” And I went, okay. “And I’m here to tell you that it’s really important that we have a carbon price in Alberta to future-proof the oil and gas industry.” I’m like, whoa, okay. And then she went on to talk about how Saudi Arabia is investing billions and billions of dollars to reduce the carbon intensity of oil production in Saudi Arabia, because they know that in the long term, if you’re gonna use carbon-based fuels, you have to do it in a more environmentally responsible way. And she said we can’t not invest. Because when the world moves, and we’ve gone from the IRA to the Big, Beautiful Bill, and do we think we’re gonna be, like maybe we might be in the middle. And in that world, the carbon intensity of your production is gonna matter, and that’s why Saudi Arabia is investing. And she gets it. She understands that if we’re gonna produce our oil and our natural gas, we need to do it in an environmentally responsible way, in partnership with First Nations.
And I believe that when we do that, when we look at Canadians and say, hey, the world is desperate, they don’t have—like, the world’s gonna have a massive crunch. Like, people are stopping flying airplanes because there’s no jet fuel in the world.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
When the world is asking for a product that we have, and we say to Canadians, we do it in the most environmentally responsible way of any country in the world. And when we help our allies, we do that, and it pays for our schools, and it pays for our roads, and it pays for our hospitals, and it pays for our $10-a-day childcare, and our dental care, and people go, okay, that makes sense.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
So, we’re, as I said in my speech, we share a goal. We share a goal that we need to be a clean and conventional energy superpower. We need to future-proof the conventional part of our industry, and we’re in discussions about how we get there. I can tell you, those discussions are ongoing. They’re very constructive, and we’re gonna get there, because we both believe in the same thing. We believe in a stronger Canada.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
You mentioned the Major Projects Office. There’s probably a lot of people in the room who are very interested in that. Thank you for the update on what’s happening. It’s very exciting. The big question, though, is, how quickly can you really get these things going? How quickly can you get them done? I have heard, I heard something really interesting, when I was at a conference in Asia. Some folks, there’s the pace of government, which we know to be a certain pace. There’s pace of business, we wanna work at the pace of commerce. But now, I’ve heard there’s this thing called the pace of Carney, which seems to be a lot faster. How are you balancing the desire to move faster with the obvious obligations we have to both think about the environment, and think about Indigenous consultation?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Yeah. So, I think in government we have been comfortable, whenever there’s something new that we need to do of just adding, adding something, and adding something, and adding something. And I think the statistic I saw that the level of regulation has gone up by 35%, since 2005.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
M’hm (affirmative).
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
And we all know, in business, sometimes you get to a place where you say, hey, I still need you to hit your key performance indicator…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…but you’re gonna do it with 10% less.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
You’re gonna do it with less people, and I’m gonna give you a budget. And what do you do? You sit with your team, you brainstorm, you work hard, you experiment, and you figure out how to deliver on your key performance indicator with fewer people and less money. I think the Prime Minister is bringing the same rationale. You need to deliver the same environmental responsibility. You need to deliver, actually, better Indigenous…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…consultation. But you need to do it quicker. So, you don’t get to go just add people in time. You need to re-engineer how we do this. And I could go into the weeds on how we’re doing that, but there’s a whole process of how we re-engineer how we do things to get the same or better outcomes in two years or less, with a federal bureaucracy that is 15% smaller.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
One, you rightly noted that the Prime Minister is going around, and securing some deals around the world. I think it’s positive that he’s doing that. As he leaves those countries, though, he’s leaving behind a real sense of optimism for countries to want to invest in Canada, specifically in critical minerals and critical metals. It’s almost like he has the sizzle reel out there, and now it’s time for us to figure out how we’re going to make it happen. But it’s difficult, because you have to balance two things when you think about critical minerals. You’ve got to balance sovereignty, and you have to balance the control of a very important substance. How are you gonna do that, and what’s the message we’re gonna send to foreign investors?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Yeah. I was on a CBC program the other night, where they suggested that because a mine was owned by an American company, it was somehow evil.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Right.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
It’s our minerals.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
We control the minerals. We control what gets exported. Whose capital we use to do that. I mean, we’re clear. We’re gonna attract $500 billion of capital. Much of that is gonna come from foreign countries…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…to build this country. We will retain control and sovereignty over this, as we have things like the Investment Canada Act.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Right.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Nobody has a problem with buying a car from a Ford or Toyota, which is a foreign company that builds cars in this country. No one has a problem buying a hamburger from McDonald’s. So, the fact that critical minerals are financed—and I’ll go back to what I said in my speech. If we are going to develop our cards, we need to attract foreign capital.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
M’hm (affirmative).
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
That’s why we did the 56 deals. That’s why we went to every one of our G7 partners. That’s why we went to our NATO allies, and said, hey, you guys have a supply chain that is being weaponized against you. We do too. But unlike you, we have the critical minerals. If we start developing this, will you do it with us? That’s why those 56 deals from all those countries with $18 billion, most of it foreign capital, came in to put Canadian mines and Canadian processing. There’s nothing wrong with that. Now, are we wide-eyed realists? We look who makes those investments, and whether—there’s always a national security overlay, and that’s what the Investment Canada Act is designed to deal with.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah. We are out of time. I’m gonna take, beg your indulgence, if I could ask you one last question.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Sure.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Okay. It’s just because I’m very excited that you have said that you’re gonna do a forestry strategy. Because of all the sectors, that’s the one that’s really getting knocked around pretty harshly. And it does—it’s mainly in a couple of provinces, specifically, but it’s significant, and it’s devastating where it hits. All those small towns, you grew up in one, so you know what it’s like. I’m wondering that, when you take a look at the strategy you’re gonna come up with, are you thinking about ways to increase domestic demand? And then, I’m gonna put my hat on as being, the other ministry I had, are you gonna try to tackle the issue of logistics and transportation?
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Yes and yes.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Good. Feel free to tell us all about it, prior to your strategy.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
Look, the fundamental, one of the things the task force said, which really, really resonated with me, is forestry is ultimately just another manufacturing industry.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Okay.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
And whether it’s, whatever you’re making, widgets, if you can’t tell the person who wants to build a new widget factory what the inputs are gonna cost, and whether you’re gonna have access to those inputs…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Right. Right.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…no one’s gonna invest a dollar.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
And when we have a system today in—and this is a joint federal provincial discussion—when we have a system today where, whether it’s a sawmill, or a pulp mill, or an OSB, or an MDF, or whatever it is, and they cannot predict what the cost of their fibre will be…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Right.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…and quite frankly, they don’t know if they’re gonna wake up tomorrow, and their access to fibre…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…is gonna be cut in half…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…no one’s gonna invest. We need to solve that problem. We have competing interests, which as they all collide today, the reality is, if you’re trying to commit new capital to the forestry sector in Canada today, you don’t know what your access to fibre is, and you don’t know what the cost of fibre is. We need to solve that problem.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
I appreciate that. By the way, here in Toronto, as you probably know, they’re building a wonderful structure that is wood, in nature, and more than 12 stories.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
So, your other part of it is Build Canada Homes. So…
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
Yeah.
The Hon. Tim Hodgson
…the prime minister has said we’re gonna take average annual new home starts from 220, 230,000 homes a year to 500,000. Build Canada Homes is gonna be a big catalyst of that. Build Canada Homes has a whole bunch of KPIs that the prime minister is laser focused on. One of them is how much mass timber is being used, how much Canadian wood is being used. And as we look at building codes, as we look at which projects, affordable projects we’re gonna fund, one of the criteria is show me how much Canadian wood, Canadian mass timber you’re using. We think we can soak up 20 to 30% of what’s currently going to the US, just by building smarter here at home.
The Hon. Lisa Raitt
That is really good news to the building and trade sector here, as well. So, I’m sure they’re happy to hear that. Ladies and gentlemen, Minister Hodgson. Thank you.
Note of Appreciation and Concluding Remarks by Saurabh Popat
Thank you both to Minister Hodgson and Lisa for that incredible panel session. I’ll just take a few more minutes of your time, before we close out. You both gave us a clear view of the challenges ahead. You outlined the choices that our country needs to make to successfully navigate a rapidly shifting global order. The Empire Club has been convening critical nation-building conversations for more than 120 years. And this will not be the last that unpacks the realities, while charting a progressive path forward. Please join me again, in thanking the speakers for their contributions.
I’d also like to take a moment to recognize the students and the young leaders and apprentices joining us here today. Their presence is made possible through our charitable arm, the Empire Club Foundation, and the generosity of our donors. To stay connected, please subscribe to our newsletter by scanning the QR code on your tables.
And I hope that you’ll join us for our upcoming events, including on Tuesday, May the 12th, where we will host the second annual “State of the Airport” address. Deborah Flint, President/CEO of Toronto Pearson, will preview a new era of growth and change for Canada’s Gateway Airport, followed by a fireside chat with the Globe and Mail’s columnist Andrew Willis. We’re also excited to announce a newly added event to our calendar. On May 6th, we welcome the Honourable François-Philippe Champagne, Canada’s Minister of Finance and National Revenue. Just one week after the Federal Spring Economic Statement, he will outline our country’s fiscal priorities, and the strategic choices required to navigate global volatility and ensure long-term economic resilience. Lastly, I’m also happy to announce that on June 2nd, we’ll have our inaugural Empire Club Golf Tournament. Please visit our website for more information.
As always, in the club of record, all Empire Club events are available to watch and listen to on our website, and today’s recording will be available shortly. Thank you again for being part of this important conversation. This meeting is now adjourned.
