December 11, 2024
The Empire Club of Canada Presents
Indigenous Partnerships — a New Way Forward to Unlock Canadian Infrastructure
Chairperson: Jenna Donelson, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Moderator
Michael Fox, President and CEO of Indigenous Community Engagement
Panellists
Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak, National Chief, Assembly of First Nations
Cherie Brant, National Leader of Indigenous Law, Borden Ladner Gervais
Hillary Thatcher, Managing Director of Investments & Leader, Indigenous Infrastructure Team, Canada Infrastructure Bank
Head Table Guests
Martin Denyes, Managing Partner, Fasken
Laurel Hoffarth, Canadian Regional Engineer, Waste Connections of Canada
Welcome Address by Jenna Donelson, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Empire Club of Canada. I’m Jenna Donelson, chair of the board of this historic organization, and your host for today’s event. I want to start by once again thanking my colleague, Caitlin, for such a moving land acknowledgement earlier.
Today’s acknowledgement, which is how we begin all of our meetings, feels particularly poignant, as we gather to discuss Indigenous partnerships, and their critical role in shaping Canada’s economic future. Many of you who have been in our events this season know that every speech ever delivered from this podium is recorded in our Digital Library. And I like to look back into our club’s history, as a way of understanding and framing our conversations today.
The Empire Club has been around since 1903. And I have to say, with all honesty and candour, the discussion we are having today would have shocked our first members. Because in those early years, the club often ignored the voices of disenfranchised and underrepresented groups, including Indigenous Peoples. In the first several decades, conversations at the Empire Club lacked any meaningful dialogue about, or with, Indigenous Peoples. And in fact, some of our events were outright disrespectful. In 1936, our club hosted then famous author and speaker, Grey Owl, who presented himself as a First Nations leader. In reality, he was a British-born man, from Essex England, named Archibald. What is striking, to me, is that most of the people in the audience seem to know that he was a fake, and yet, it still happened. Today, this would rightfully be seen as deeply disrespectful—I can see many of you are uncomfortable just hearing about it—but I raise it because we have to be honest about our history, about how damaging things like that are to our relationship with Indigenous Peoples. Regardless of what was common practice then—and the Empire Club often reflected the common practices of the day—we now know how wrong this was. And so, I’d like to take a moment to recognize all the Indigenous people who have partnered with us, in taking steps towards Reconciliation, and towards a better way forward. I’d like to say thank you.
Looking back at our history also presents the opportunity to better understand how far we’ve come, as a club, as a society, and where we need to go. The Empire Club has evolved dramatically, over its 121-year history. Over the decades, the Empire Club has welcomed voices that reflect the changing priorities, and values of Canada. In the 1960’s, we began hosting prominent figures advocating for civil rights, and social justice. By the 80’s and 90’s, Indigenous leaders, environmental activists, women in politics, were featured prominently on our stage, helping to reshape the narrative about what leadership and progress look like in this country. And in the more recent years, we’ve had the opportunity to highlight Indigenous leadership in several areas, from women in business, to healthcare delivery, from the role of education in advancing Reconciliation, to Indigenomics, among other important topics. And all of these events have brought us closer to our goal of hosting conversations that matter.
Today’s discussion is no exception. We are here, in this full room today, to hear a conversation about the real opportunities that lie ahead; a new way forward. Our panel will explore how equity partnerships with Indigenous communities can advance economic Reconciliation in a meaningful way, and lay the groundwork for a more prosperous Canada. Despite the fact that for much of Canada’s history—in fact, for most of Canada’s history—these partnerships were unheard of, today, they are an important step towards economic Reconciliation.
Like many of you in this room, I’m particularly excited to hear from National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak, whose advocacy and leadership have been transformative for First Nations across Canada. So, thank you all, for joining us for this timely discussion, and for supporting conversations that matter today, and into the future, here at the Empire Club.
And just before we dive into the discussion, I want to take a moment to thank our sponsors. The Empire Club is a non-profit organization, our sponsors generously support the club; they make these events possible, and complementary viewing online possible. So, please join me in thanking our Lead Sponsors, Waste Connections of Canada, AtkinsRéalis, and Fasken. And thank you, as well, to our VIP Reception Sponsors, Ellis Don, the Nuclear Waste Management Organization, and Sterling Ridge Infrastructure. I’d also like to say thank you to our Supporting Sponsors, Nieuport Aviation, Humber Polytechnic, and Cormorant Utility. Thank you. We are also deeply appreciative of our ongoing Lead Season Sponsors, Bruce Power, and Hydro One, and our VIP Reception Season Sponsor, Waste Connections of Canada. Thank you all. And we’re almost there. Finally, thank you to our Media Partner, the Toronto Star, and our AV Partner, Bespoke Audio Visual. Thank you.
If you have a question for our speakers, please scan the QR code that is found on your program, or if you’re online, through the Q&A function. For those of you online, if you’re having difficulties, use the chat feature, and our staff will be there to help you.
To get started, I’d like to bring your attention to the screens, as we have a video from one of our Lead Sponsors, AtkinsRéalis. Please roll it.
[VIDEO:]
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[END OF VIDEO]
Jenna Donelson
Thank you, AtkinsRéalis, for that video. Thank you for your support. It is now my pleasure to invite Martin Denyes, Firm Managing Partner at Fasken, another one of today’s Lead Event Sponsors to the stage, to offer an introduction to our keynote speaker, National Chief Cindy Woodhouse. Please join me in welcoming to the stage, Martin Denyes.
Opening Remarks by Martin Denyes, Managing Partner, Fasken
Let me start with a congratulations. This past Saturday, Chief Woodhouse Nepinak, you celebrated your first anniversary as National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations. I hope you had a quiet moment to reflect on that this weekend. I’m hopeful it was a moment of celebration. First years can be challenging. There’s so much to learn. Yesterday, I was reflecting on that with a colleague, also completing her first year in a new leadership role, as am I—there’s a few of us—on what it meant to have that experience of one year, and what it might look like in year two. By the end of year one, you’ve completed a cycle; a lot of things repeat themselves from here on in. That’s comforting, but not everything falls in a cycle. There will be change, and it will need to be navigated.
In 2025, there will be political change. The US government is changing in January, the Canadian government—I’m told by our comms team to be careful about this—seems to be on a path to change, as well. That change may impact the dialogue on infrastructure. That change may impact the dialogue with First Nations. This will be an important year to build on, rather than step back from the momentum that’s been built in the Reconciliation conversation in this country. Infrastructure represents opportunity for First Nations, from financial opportunity, to connectivity, roads, telecommunications, the services. Every project, every transaction, can also represent a diminishment in autonomy. This balance must be navigated carefully, and through relationships. That’s where your guidance, guidance like yours, Chief Woodhouse Nepinak, is so, so important.
You will know that my own law firm has been on a Reconciliation journey of its own. We have our own history to understand and reflect on, and we’re building a more modern legacy now. You will know that we have supported the AFN, for almost a decade now. Your friend, former National Chief, Perry Bellegarde, joined us two years ago, helping us bring a new perspective both to our internal dialogues, and to support our clients and theirs. It’s been an insightful journey with Perry. He’s brought wisdom and perspective to our conversations, that simply does not come out from a law book.
We also opened an office on the Tsuu T’ina Reserve in Calgary last year, the first major law firm to do so in North America, and perhaps the world. It’s part of our commitment to relationships, and it’s not simply transactions. Because it isn’t just an office; it’s a gateway to a community of elders, of artists, of people. And it’s a statement, a statement of a commitment that’s much broader than one community, and one development.
Of course, unlike most of the rest of us, your first year in a new job, and every year, Chief Woodhouse Nepinak, is magnified by a spotlight. There’s media at every turn, there are more than 600 First Nations constituencies keeping an eye on your work, and there is this Empire Club stage. May I say, you have navigated that first year with wisdom and grace. May I also say, while that spotlight may feel intense at times, it’s good that people are paying attention, because for so long, we did not.
Let me now make sure our audience knows a little more about you, as you take the stage. Our guest speaker today was born and raised on the Pinaymootang First Nation, Manitoba. One of her ancestors, Chief Richard Woodhouse, was a signatory of Treaty Number 2. She holds a Bachelors of Arts degree from the University of Winnipeg. She completed Harvard Business School’s Tribal Leaders Program. In 2021, she was elected as Regional Chief of the AFN Manitoba Region. A year ago, Saturday, she became National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations, chosen by leaders of more than 600 First Nations across Canada. She brings the wisdom and experience of all that to the stage today. Please join me in welcoming Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak to the Empire Club stage.
Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak, National Chief, Assembly of First Nations
Miigwech. Thank you, Martin, for that very kind introduction. I just have to say, you know, my first year in Ottawa has been very busy. I want to—but I do want to say something. When I first arrived in Ottawa, it was a friend of mine, who worked at Archives—and in fact, one of the ladies that works with me here, her name is Lana, I don’t know if she’s here, but she can do a little wave. Her—in the 1800s, the Dominion of Canada published a publication on Indian people. And her grandfather and my grandfather were in the front of the picture of this Dominion of Canada catalog, on how Indian Affairs was going at the time. And I said to her, “Can you imagine our grandfathers, like 140 years ago, that we would still be doing this work 140 years later?” And I think that tells us something that, yes, I’m proud to be Canadian, but I’m, I’m more proud to be First Nation. And I think that we’re all in a marriage, in this country, and nobody’s getting divorced. I just had to say that.
So, here we are. And I’m so thankful to the Empire Club, for welcoming me. I want to thank you, Michael, as well, the board, so many wonderful people that I’ve met here. Caitlin, thank you for that kind introduction. I also want to say thank you to my friend Fiona. I always—Fiona and I have been friends for many years, and I always call her my best friend, with high heels and a hard hat, because that’s who she is. So, if you can give a little wave, Fiona. Yeah, nice. Thank you. And I just want to acknowledge, as well, the leadership in the room. I know that this past year, we’ve lost a few leaders in Indian Country. And I know that recently, we’ve lost the late Murray Sinclair. We’ve also lost, you know, Grand Chief Cathy Merrick. We’ve lost a Gitxsan Chief, just a few weeks ago. And it’s because of our leadership, like Chief Abram Benedict, I know Chief Joe Miskokomon; there’s a few other chiefs in the room. And Council, if you can all stand up. We just want to acknowledge you and thank you for—our leadership are on the front lines of First Nations communities, and they’re doing the necessary work in this country, to make lives better for all of us. So, I just—I commend all of you for your work, for being here today, and, you know, if they’re at your table, you’re so lucky, right? That you have the advice and wisdom of our leaders. I also want to acknowledge the Traditional Territory of the Mississaugas of the New Credit, the Anishinaabeg, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat People. [Indiscernible]. I’m so thankful that you’re all here.
I just—I’m so thankful. And as I look to the future, I just have to say that, yes, we’re in a marriage. And sometimes that means, you know, you may not want to resort to that through court, but I just have to say that First Nations people—First Nations have been celebrated, and we’ve been celebrating, a series of hard-fought legal victories that reaffirm our inherent rights over the past year, and the past years. In February of this year, the Supreme Court ruling on child welfare jurisdiction means that First Nations children should no longer be hindered by provinces, in the exercise of our inherent rights, our laws, and our jurisdiction. I want to also—I know that some of the, you know, Huron, the Robinson Huron, Wendat Treaty, Superior Treaties, where billions in compensation is expected, I want to commend those 21 First Nations, who stood up for their treaty rights. I also want to say that we’ve had victories, as First Nations, major victories in courts, in BC, the Yukon, and the Québec Court for First Nations on mineral rights. Each decision sends, continues to send a message to federal and provincial governments, that First Nations can no longer be left to the sidelines. So, I’m so happy that you’re all here today. Why? Because when we work together, we help each other, and we have a better marriage, right?
Since its founding, Canada has not always, you know, when it comes to economic Reconciliation, Canada and the provinces have not—have always divvied up national resources in this country, and the right to do business, by issuing licences for forestry, for fisheries, for agriculture, for mining, for oil and gas. And at no time were First Nations considered as partners. Instead, poverty and the restraint of trade were centerpieces of the Indian Act. Economic Reconciliation is not just a moral and a legal obligation for Canada; it is a strategic advantage for future generations. First Nations will unlock a wealth of potential and innovation, that will drive Canada’s collective prosperity and economic growth.
When it comes to the infrastructure gap, we have to start with the basics. To thrive, First Nations must have access to clean water, to quality housing, to reliable roads, to power supplies. There’s too many First Nations people off the grid still, and we need to fix that in this country. We need access—our kids need access to good infrastructure, and good schools, and high-speed internet. During the pandemic, I had lived in my husband’s community, and I had to wait till midnight, when everybody was off—we had one tower up there—where everybody was off, and we didn’t have Starlink yet. And it was frustrating, because that’s when you could watch a movie, and yet, we were expected to deliver education services in our community. I had to move my boys out of that home, just to get them education, later on that year. And that’s unacceptable. We should have had high-speed internet. And I think rural Canada—look, farmers and First Nations matter, and I think that, you know, they need access to internet and, of course, to self-service. And these are just the basics of this country.
But I’m going to move back on, on First Nations. It’s so, this is why I think that it’s so important that we continue to talk about closing the infrastructure gap by 2030, that it’s so incredibly and critically important that we close that gap. AFN, and the Assembly of First Nations and Indigenous Services Canada, we did a study together. We estimate that $349 billion is needed, to close that infrastructure gap by 2030. This investment—before I go on, on that—this investment, if they put that in, we’re at the last of the G7 countries; this will propel us to number one, if we put those investments as a country. It’ll generate $635 billion in economic activity, and it will return $1.82 for every dollar invested. And that will create 340,000 jobs. Ninety percent of those jobs will go to non-Indigenous Canadians. So, the report is a blueprint for political parties preparing their election platforms for 2025, and for the current government to consider, as they prepare for March’s federal budget.
I just want to say it simply. To be—I guess, like, when we also talk about procurement, it’s been a big discussion in this country, these past few weeks, and I know that it’s at the INAN Committee as we speak, on procurement. I’m just going to say it very simply, as well, when we talk about that very sensitive—it’s a sensitive issue, but it’s absolutely important that we have these discussions. To be recognized for procurement, the entrepreneur or the company must be from a First Nation, and they must know them as one of their own. Without a connection to the community, there is no benefit to the community and this country. So, I just—I have to say that on procurement, I know it’s a big discussion, but I think that it’s so important.
When we move forward and, you know, we have a wonderful education country, education in this country, facilities, programs. But one of the most effective ways—and I was talking to a friend of mine, who owns a billion-dollar company, and he was going to Tokyo, and other places, trying to bring people back to Canada. And we talked about education, and the investments in our young people. But I think one of the most effective ways to sustain the success of a First Nation economy is to invest in education and skills training, starting at an early age, and all the way through adult learning. As the late Justice Sinclair had talked about, “Education has gotten us into this mess, and education will get us out.” Very famous quote from him. And so, looking at the news over the past year, we have watched Canadian universities and colleges, and the industries, for instance, you know, they face significant reduction in international workers, and international students on their campuses. But why are we not filling those spaces with First Nations youth? Why are we not creating opportunities for children aging out of government care? When a child is in the child welfare system, the day after they turn 18, they enter extreme poverty, probably 95% of the time. We can fix that here, as industry. And so, why aren’t we training more First Nations doctors, nurses, making sure that there’s space for them?
But we do have hope. We talk about hope, across this country. First Nations, we see many of them in this room, are shining a light on solutions, because we can. We can do anything that we put our minds to. Thinking of our history, we can be like a premier—we have our first First Nations premier in Wab Kinew, and I’m so proud of him. And we look at Supreme Court Justices, like Michelle O’Bonsawin, and Mr. Paul Favel. I’m so proud of them. We can be acclaimed filmmakers. We can be Stanley Cup champions, like Zach Whitecloud, and the young man from this territory, Branden Montour. I’m so proud of them. And I just have to say, the last two NHL—every time they hoisted the Cup, had First Nations people on them. So, any future, any NHL people in the crowd, you should have a First Nations kid on your team. You may win the Cup, because their kookum’s at home.
And so, we can be Stanley Cup champions, and best-selling authors, we can look after our own children, we can manage multi-billion dollar projects. First Nations, we are making our mark in the economy, in culture, in politics, in the fight for climate change and human rights. And I just have to say that I’m proud of so many First Nations people across this country. Ashley Callingbull. This young woman, you know, went and represented Canada around the world, at a pageant, and she’d come in 12th place. And I’m so proud of her. And all these countries around the world, that a First Nations woman, for the first time, represented us so well. Caitlin Tolley, young lawyer. Thank you. So, proud of you.
And so, we are making our mark in the world. And I just have to—I know that, you know, Martin, you had talked about the Canada-U.S. relations. And I have to remind this country that First Nations, you know, next month, transition into the White House, the U.S. Senate, and the House of Representatives, have got a lot of people talking in this country, and rightfully so. The Prime Minister and the premiers met to discuss the future of Canada’s economy, and our relations with the United States. They agreed to establish a Team Canada approach to the new U.S. reality. And while we support these discussions, it’s also important to point out that going into 2025, the Team Canada approach to U.S. relations without First Nations at the table is not Team Canada. It’s so imperative. It’s so imperative that First Nations be actively included in these national dialogues. Our involvement is crucial, not only in terms of territorial stewardship and traditional knowledge, but also the economic opportunities that drive growth within our borders. As we discuss national security, border integrity, and economic transitions, it’s essential to integrate the perspectives and participation of First Nations, to harness these opportunities.
And I just have to say, you know, Regional Chief that’s here with us today, thank you for leading many of those discussions on the U.S.-Canada relations. And at this critical time—Regional Chief will agree with me on this, the Chiefs of Ontario—that we remind Canada, and the provinces, of the Crown’s duty to involve First Nations that matter, and that can impact our rights, our lands, our livelihoods, and our interests to our people. First Nations hold the key, First Nations lands hold the key to much of Canada’s wealth in critical minerals, and energy resources, that are pivotal to domestic prosperity and trade with the United States. This puts us at the heart of any decision on economic development and trade. So, we cannot be left out of these discussions, because the issues at hand are not just about economic transactions; they are about national security, border integrity, and maintaining sovereignty, especially in the Arctic, where our presence has been a foundation of Canadian claims. Our exclusion does not change the Crown’s obligation to us, nor the fact that our involvement is crucial for the sustainable and secure development of these regions. A few years ago, at the invitation of the Prime Minister, First Nations contributed significantly to the discussions leading to the Canada-U.S.-Mexico trade agreement. So, we are again calling upon the Prime Minister and the premiers to repeat that success, and include First Nations in the dialogue now.
So, I just want to, chi miigwech, I want to thank you for having me today, and I want to thank you for this beautiful discussion, and I look forward to further dialogue, and thank you so much, chi miigwech, for listening to me.
Jenna Donelson
Thank you, National Chief Woodhouse Nepinak. Appreciate those comments. Appreciate your comments about marriage. It reminds me of something I once heard: marriage is the hardest work you’ll ever love to do. Thank you, for committing to that hard work. I think everyone is committed to that relationship. Appreciate it. I’m going to invite our panellists on stage to join you, while I introduce them, our distinguished panellists.
First we have our moderator, who is no stranger to this stage. Michael Fox is President and CEO of Indigenous Community Engagement, a 100% Indigenous-owned consulting firm. Michael is a proud member of the Weenusk First Nation, and has dedicated his career to building sustainable partnerships between Indigenous communities and corporate Canada. He is an expert in Indigenous partnership, Indigenous participation plans, and Reconciliation action plans. He is leading the roads into the Ring of Fire, on behalf of the Wébékéwé and Marten Falls Nations. Please join me, in welcoming to the stage, Michael Fox.
Joining Michael are Hillary Thatcher, who is Managing Director of Investments at the Canada Infrastructure Bank, leading their Indigenous Infrastructure Team. Hillary’s career spans decades of experience in Indigenous affairs, across government and industry. As a Métis leader, she has been instrumental in advancing projects that align with Indigenous priorities, while building bridges among government, industry, and Indigenous communities. She is also joined by Cherie Brant, a partner and National Leader of Indigenous Law at Borden Ladner Gervais. Cherie’s career is marked by groundbreaking achievements, including the first 100% First Nation-owned wind power project in Ontario, and major equity partnerships with Hydro One. As a member of the Mohawk and Ojibwe Nations, her work lifts up Indigenous communities, while addressing Canada’s complex constitutional landscape. And of course, we have National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak. Her leadership, particularly in securing landmark agreements like the $23 billion Child Welfare Compensation, continues to pave the way for economic Reconciliation, and a brighter future for First Nation communities. We’ll now turn it over to our panel, to explore their great work. Michael, over to you.
Michael Fox, President & CEO, Indigenous Community Engagement
Thank you. And greetings, or I should say season’s greetings. Yeah. I thought we could just kickstart this conversation around economic Reconciliation. I think there’s different visions, different versions, different variations of it across Canada. So, why does it matter? And how is it going to make a difference for both Indigenous Nations, and mainstream Canadians? Do you want to start first?
Cherie Brant, Partner, National Leader of Indigenous Law, Borden Ladner Gervais
Me first?
Michael Fox
Yes.
Cherie Brant
All right. Hello, everybody. It’s really nice to see so many familiar faces. You know what? When I think about economic Reconciliation, the first thing that comes to mind for me is, really, community. It’s not lost on me that I’ve always been focused on bringing the economy to Indigenous communities. But actually, when I grew up, the focus was around Indigenous individuals trying to get access to the economy that was outside their communities. So, I look at this as such an incredible development that, 50 years later, we’re now bringing the economy to Indigenous communities. And that, to me, is what Reconciliation is all about, trying to find a way to do that.
If I think about the question from a legal perspective, I sort of look at Reconciliation, and think about the possibilities of moving away from the structures, with respect to the duty to consult. I think that Reconciliation can offer us an opportunity to move away from that, and, and really just see that the duty to consult has really just always been a minimum, a minimum standard, right? It’s always just been that minimum threshold. And really, we can just keep going upwards from that, and see that with Reconciliation, we can create all sorts of different types of partnerships. So, move away from the duty to consult, and focus on partnerships that are really going to look to create economic, better economic outcomes for communities.
And then finally, honestly, economic Reconciliation, for me, is about finding solutions, right? We’ve always thought that—I’ve always looked at the Indian Act, and seen so many problems, but looked at it from wanting to find the solutions within those structures that we’re working within. And you know, we’ve been doing that. We’ve been doing that, I think—I’m sitting next to one of my old friends, here. Hillary and I have been doing that for several years now, in the electricity space, right? And so, to me, economic Reconciliation is about finding those solutions. And I can see us you know, doing it in so many ways.
Michael Fox
Excellent. Hillary?
Hillary Thatcher, Managing Director of Investments & Leader, Indigenous Infrastructure Team, Canada Infrastructure Bank
Maybe I’ll just add, because I think Cherie has covered off a lot of the things I would have said, but I’ll add that economic Reconciliation, to me, is about economic inclusion. And so, I think you’ve highlighted First Nations, Métis, Inuit, have been left out of Canada’s economy for far too long. And as Cherie noted, like, for the last couple of decades, we’ve worked in the energy space in Ontario, and we saw that shift happen with the Green Energy and Economy Act. But it wasn’t happening across the nation, and it wasn’t happening for a variety of reasons. Industry wasn’t there, you know, partnering with an Indigenous community is a lot of work. It’s building relationships, that takes time. But, you know, we’re seeing more and more, when Indigenous communities are included in project development, whether it’s clean power, or trade and transport, roads, rail, you get projects built better. They’re built on time, they’re built with Indigenous workers, who tend to be local to the project, saves money, you know, it helps through the environmental approvals process. No longer do you do a desktop study to build a major transmission line, and get it wrong, because you actually don’t know the land. When you work with your Indigenous partners, they can tell you, you need to follow this esker, you need to follow this route, because if you go this route, it won’t work, you’re going to be in swamps, you’re going to be a muskeg. So, working with Indigenous communities means that you get projects built better. And we’ve seen this for the last couple of decades.
And so, we need to continue to do more, to make sure that communities are included in Canada’s economy. And one of the key tools to doing that—and it’s, you know, something we hear a lot about, particularly with the last budget, and the Loan Guarantee Program, is access to affordable capital. And so, for communities to actually participate in the economy, they need to be able to borrow money, they need to be able to set up businesses that can be bonded, they need to be able to ensure themselves as partners on major projects, and even projects within their own community, to make sure that they’re building something that can operate the life of the asset. And so, just a quick toot for the CIB, but that’s something that we’re doing, and we’re lending directly to communities, so that they have access to affordable capital. I have to underscore affordable, because there’s all sorts of, you know, loans out there that are not affordable, which yield very little return. And when communities have access to capital, they make that money go really far, and it gets reinvested in the community, in more infrastructure, to close those infrastructure gaps that, National Chief, you spoke about, and improve outcomes for community members, which improves outcomes for Canada.
Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak
I think, I think you’re right. I think that that’s a good discussion item to be talking about, on what economic Reconciliation is not. It’s, it’s not keeping First Nations out of the banking system, I’ll say, as a whole in this country. I certainly, you know, we come from First Nations communities—and a lot of Canadians don’t know this, and they’re shocked, every time I, I talk about it —and the fact that, number one, they, as First Nations, they number us. Like, my number is 2720178701, on top of my Social Insurance Number. And every other First Nation person here will have that, that other number, that they kind of number you at. But if you’re on your community, and you say, I want to get a house, and I want to build a coffee shop. And you go to the bank, and the mainstream banks are going to tell you, as a First Nations person, well, go and ask for a Ministerial Loan Guarantee from the minister in Ottawa. This is how ridiculous that piece is, and I think that we can do better, as a country. I think that we can work better, and absolutely find affordable—if it has to be that way, to find affordable loans, which is unfortunately something that we have to talk about here, that Canadians would be flabbergasted to hear this conversation. And to say—and then you wonder why the poverty, and how we’re not moving fast enough. We’re moving, we’re moving in a good way. But we could be moving a lot faster together.
Michael Fox
So, what would you say are the trends, in terms of Indigenous participation in infrastructure development across Canada? Hillary, would you—you’re in that space.
Hillary Thatcher
Sure, I can start. And I know Cherie, National Chief, you know a lot about this, as well. But we’re certainly seeing a lot more industry partners, looking to partner with Indigenous communities. They’re seeking local Indigenous Nations, and seeking the opportunity to learn from community, and find partnerships, economic partnerships, equity partnerships. We saw in the last federal budget a national Loan Guarantee Program. The budget before that, the CIB was given the authority to lend directly to communities, for their equity stakes and projects. And communities, by and large, want to be equity owners in major projects that are happening on their territory. We’re seeing across the country right now in, you know, we have a great need to increase our renewable generation. We’ve seen calls for power from BC, Saskatchewan, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, of late. And all of them have Indigenous components and requirements.
So, they’re looking and seeking Indigenous partnerships, and those calls for power are yielding just that. Projects are being built, in partnership with Indigenous communities and independent power producers, which are going to result in not just many, many, many more megawatts on the system, so that we have more clean power, and our air is better for us to breathe, but where Indigenous communities have an economic stake, they’re going to see returns to their communities—often regulated returns, so pretty good stuff, as solid as you can get, with some PPAs—and that will yield better results for communities. So, as I said earlier, you’ll see the reinvestment in community-based businesses, in the well-being index improvements across the communities, as well. So, I would say equity is a big trend right now, in infrastructure. And we’re seeing it not just in the clean power space, but we’re seeing it in sort of any linear asset, ports, anything that impacts water, air, land. Communities are really seeking an interest in ownership, and industry’s been stepping up, and slowly, government’s coming alongside, too.
Cherie Brant
Yeah. And I would say, you know, the trending has been, if we sort of think about the duty to consult from a legal perspective, the trend has been for individual Nations to bring forward their issues, and bring forward the ways that they’re seeking to be consulted and accommodated. But the trend has been to actually, like, let’s look at these opportunities from a collective perspective, move away from individual impacts, and actually take it up a level, and sort of think about the broader picture, right? And work towards collective transactions, where Nations can really come together, whether it’s on a treaty basis, or other regional basis, and really be, like, to have the strength in numbers, right? To be together, more communities working together on major projects.
We’ve had the benefit of being involved in that, in the Hydro One deal. You know, there was 132 First Nations that had the opportunity to join a major partnership, and become partners with Hydro One. That’s 2017, now. So, you know, there’s really an opportunity for every province to do its similar type of collective transaction, and I think that is the future. We’ve got examples, as you were saying, in the East Coast, of communities coming together. The Mi’kmaq are really moving…
Hillary Thatcher
Yeah.
Cherie Brant
…in the east side of the country. You know, we’ve got projects that we’re involved in, where you’ve got examples of 12 Mi’kmaq communities coming together, looking to participate in the electricity sector. So, that, to me, is absolutely the trending.
I think that it creates a whole bunch of other difficult questions that need to be answered, around how will those communities partner with each other. We’ve spent so many years sort of being subject to divide-and-conquer type of politics, that how do you bring those communities together, that we’re once, you know, looking to compete with each other, are now sort of trying to figure out how to partner with each other. So, there’s lots to figure out, on the governance front. I think, you know, for any proponents that are looking into that area, they really need to understand how will those committees come together, on what basis will the communities seek to govern themselves, under certain entities. The Hydro One deal was, in a sense, simpler, because the opportunity was created through the province, and through Ontario First Nations wanting to see some transformation, and the offer was open to every Nation in the province, right? And so, in that sense, that, you know, created a large, still one of the largest transactions in the country. But for other proponents, they’re going to want to focus on where are their areas of impact, and who are those communities that they can partner with.
Hillary Thatcher
Yeah.
Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak
Thank you. No, absolutely. I think, I think something that I—and I think I need all of your help in this, in this space. We can certainly use it. I know we’re from coast-to-coast-to-coast here, and we’ve got connections all over our beautiful country. But I have to lift up the First Nations Major Projects Coalition, Chief Sharleen Gale. I want to lift her up, and as well as her entire team—I know some of them are here—but I want to lift you up, for pushing the $5 billion loan guarantees that were announced recently, out of Ottawa. And I want to, you know, in meeting with Danielle, Premier Danielle Smith, I know that she’s put some investments into that, from the Alberta government. I know that Wab Kinew had also, is putting some investments in that, as well. But I just ask you all to help us with the Loan Guarantee Program. Because the five billion is a really good start, but we need more investments across this country, to close the infrastructure gap, to close the gaps that exist in this country, to make sure that there’s big projects happening across this country from, you know—that First Nations are included in that. And I think that the loan guarantees are so important. And so, with your premiers, of course, with your members of parliament, we ask that you raise that, when it comes to First Nations, that they up their investments in the loan guarantees to the 100 billion, and not just 5 billion. A good start, but we have a long way to go, for it to be very impactful in our country. And I think everybody will benefit in this room and beyond.
Hillary Thatcher
I would just add that Saskatchewan, also, has…
Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak
Oh.
Hillary Thatcher
… a Loan Guarantee Program, they announced theirs a couple of years ago. And BC’s also just announced theirs. And Saskatchewan, actually—back to your partnerships—Saskatchewan’s first loan guarantee is, is going to be coming soon, they announced it. But it’s in a partnership between First Nations and Métis in Saskatchewan. So, a diverse cross-section of Nations, working together on major renewable projects. So, exciting things to come, you know, with these guarantees. It really does help to access capital. Still, you have to go to a bank, and you still have to convince them that the loan guarantee is of value that should, you know, reduce the cost of that capital. But it’s really an important tool in the toolbox, and I agree with you, we need to continue to push for more and more access.
Michael Fox
I have to put you on the spot, Hillary, or you guys are part of these transactions. Can you share with the crowd what a typical transaction is with a First Nations equity deal, flow? Is there one that you can?
Hillary Thatcher
Sure. Maybe I can start, and then…
Cherie Brant
Yeah.
Hillary Thatcher
…Cherie’s probably got some other ones, that she’s worked on. And we get to work together too. So, that’s really fun. Really fun. So, you actually noted the WMA, which is the Mi’kmaq communities, in Nova Scotia. That was our first Indigenous Equity Loan, earlier this year. And essentially, what it is, is the Mi’kmaq community are owning a stake of a major battery storage project in Nova Scotia, and they’re partnering with Nova Scotia Power. And in order to do this, they needed to have capital to put into the project, to be equity owners of that project. So, the CIB was already going to be providing a loan, project loan, to finance the project. And so, what we’re also doing now, is we’re lending the communities an equity loan, a separate loan, a separate facility, just to the communities, to the WMA, which is that collective of the Mi’kmaq communities of Nova Scotia, so that they can then inject their equity into the project.
And we’re seeing projects like this across Canada, and we’re in negotiations with many in a similar type of structure, where we provide the Nations with a separate loan. It’s separate from the deal loan, and it’s really to make sure that they have that capital to invest in the project. When we do this at the Canada Infrastructure Bank, we can lend up to 90% of the Indigenous communities’ needs, with a maximum cap of $100 million. In the case of that 10% threshold, or if it’s a larger equity check, we’re working with the communities to do market soundings, to go out to the market, to see who will fill that gap. And in one situation, you know, we have other standard lenders, other banks, and some of the [Indiscernible] who are coming in with actually really affordable capital, because they’re seeing the CIB at the table, and we’re taking on a lot of the risk with an equity loan, that it helps to de-risk. And so, it kind of plays almost like a loan guarantee, but their portion’s not backstopped by us. They’re much more comfortable, I would say, where there’s regulated rates of return, where there’s, you know, a PPA. And so because of that, it’s affordable capital to the Nation, which will yield them a return, over the life of that asset, and the life of the contract period at the very least.
Michael Fox
Right.
Cherie Brant
Yeah. And I guess to talk about structures, I would say for each structure that we’ve been involved in, there’s really a catalyst, right? And what is the catalyst? If we sort of look in the work that I was doing sort of 10, 15 years ago, the catalyst was the duty to consult. And then, the catalyst was procurement, has very much been the catalyst, in terms of enabling participation. Now, we’re seeing the catalyst be the need to access a program, right? Perhaps an Aboriginal Loan Guarantee, an Alberta Indigenous Opportunity Corporation Guarantee. The catalyst may be enabling participation in existing assets. That’s sort of been the way—I’m just sort of talking about it from the legal perspective. I think, from the First Nations perspective, the catalyst is really an opportunity for them to be a part of long-term revenue streams, and wealth generation for those communities.
Structure-wise, the communities all really need to come together, and create a holding entity. And the governance up at the holding entity really, in my experience, has been focused around trying to understand how distributions would work their way back to those individual communities. And so, you set up a holding entity up top, and then you really need to set up an investment entity, sort of in the lower, what we call sort of the lower-tier limited partnership structures, and that allows for all of the agreements to be made within those lower-tier partnerships, and then allow the nations to come up at the, at the top level. So, that’s sort of the basic structure, and then you’ve got to weave in complicated financing, the timing of that financing. You know, when will you allow those communities to come in? Do they all have to come in at the closing? Can they come in after the project is built?
So, lots of complicated questions that we’re working through, on some major projects. And I would add another level of projects that have never been built before. So, we’re seeing in Ontario first-of-its-kind projects, where multiple communities are coming together, and looking to partner on those projects. Those are going to be very difficult decisions around, do I want to be involved in this type, you know, which, when to go in, right? I think, in my view, the same questions around trying to eliminate risk will still be a key factor in wanting to come in, when you know the project is operational. But if it’s a first-of-its-kind type of initiative, you know, it’s not such an easy decision as for, say, wind, or solar, or transmission, which I think is, obviously, the best way for communities to partner.
Hillary Thatcher
And Cherie just said something that struck a bit of a chord with me. The other thing that Nations often want is a seat at the table. So, it’s one thing to be an equity owner of a project. But with equity can also come governance, a seat at the board of a company, a voice at the table of how the project’s going to get built. And we’re seeing a lot more of that. And so, that sometimes works its way into the structural element, as well, so that you ensure that that Nation has a voice at the table. And to my very early comments, it helps get projects built a bit better, on time, on budget, when those voices are at the table.
Michael Fox
Speaking of time, just maybe quickly, for those who are new in the crowd, any tips or advice for those new to the Indigenous landscape? Or, like, the folks like Fiona’s son, who came up, is the up-and-coming. Any tips or tricks in this space?
Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak
Absolutely. I think, don’t be scared to pick up the phone. And I say that, and you know, remember that old commercial? “Pick up the phone.” But I just think that, you know, so many times people call the Assembly of First Nations and say, where do we start? Well, call the, you know, figure out, number one, where you are, whose Traditional Land you’re on, and call those Nations. I think that, I just, I can’t stress that enough to, you know, new people in this space, right, that are saying, I want to, you know, we want a partner, we want to work together. And I think that that’s a really good thing. But at the same time, there’s lots of people in our communities that are, that will be willing to talk with you. And I know that, I was speaking with a couple of the Chiefs earlier, that are here. And you know, one of their business partners was standing with them, that I just met moments ago, and they’d have a relationship now, for 14 years, and now they’re here together, right? I think that that’s come a long way. It’s about relationship building. And it’s about coming together, making sure, as Hillary had said, that there’s space on, you know, on your boards. And I think that we’re well on our way. And we have a long way to go. So, thank you for having me, Miigwech.
Michael Fox
Hillary?
Hillary Thatcher
Maybe I would just add, in a similar vein—I like to tell this quick story. Our former Prime Minister, Paul Martin, once told me about when he was a young man, and he was working for his dad’s shipping company, and he had to go to Japan. And the company put him on six months training, cultural training and language training, before he went to Japan, so not to, you know, upset anybody, and offend anybody. Do your research. When you want to work with a community, do your research. It doesn’t take a lot of time, but do some background. Learn a couple of words in their language. Thank you goes a long way, when you can say thank you in a language of the community who’s hosting you. Know whether or not their kids went to Residential School—probably, the situation is yes. See if they can find anything in the media about the Nation. Learn about the Chief, their background, before you actually just pick up that phone. Because I think it helps to move those relationships along, in a much more productive way, when you’ve taken that time to actually do a bit of research on the communities that you want to work with.
Cherie Brant
Yeah. And I’m just going to be a little bit more technical on this—the lawyer in me is coming out—but look, if you’re a proponent, and you’re looking to partner with an Indigenous community, you absolutely need to find the economic development entity that those communities have. Many do, and they’ve set up those entities strictly with the goal to partner on initiatives that you’re involved in. And so, you really got to get out, do that due diligence, find those entities. But the other thing that I’ve been saying lately is it’s those entities that are really looking to be a part of the economy, but they may not have all of the skills and talents that exist within the local communities themselves. So, you really got to challenge yourself, and find those entrepreneurs. Find those trailblazers, those companies who have been working in the trade space, or in the other aspects of business space. They’ve been—they’re the true leaders, they’re the champions. They’ve been out there surviving on credit lines, and running their businesses, not having access to capital, as you say, and which we all know, and they are the true success stories. In my view, those entrepreneurs need to connect with the economic development entities, and show that they can partner with proponents in the utility space. And then ultimately, those revenues need to make their way back to the communities, themselves.
So, Chief Nepinak, you mentioned it so well, like, having a business that actually provides benefits back to the Nation is really what you want to see. So, when you’re doing the due diligence, it’s really trying to understand where’s the Nation in all of this. They don’t have to be the sole partner. They can be a partner. I would be anchoring your businesses with those entrepreneurs that know how to do the job. They’re going to be the people who have experience, and will breathe life into those businesses. Otherwise, you run risk that it’s a paper-based partnership, and we’ve been talking about that information in the news lately a lot, and that’s not the kind of partnership you want, right? So, you build it from the ground up, but you need the vision from the top.
Michael Fox
Excellent. Thanks. Well, time is up. And I must say, keep it up, the good work you guys are doing. And let’s give it up….
Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak
Before you go, though, I want to say, on behalf of the Assembly of First Nations, Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas to you and your family, and may you be safe this holiday season, and may you find a day of rest. Because 2025, we are going to be busier than ever. So. Miigwech. Thank you.
Michael Fox
Awesome. Thank you.
Jenna Donelson
Thank you. All right. Let’s say thank you, one more time, to our panel. Wow. What great insights and experiences, that inform such a substantive conversation. And I think just worth noting, three powerful women talking about an issue that is important now, and will be important for years to come. So, love to see it. And Michael, I just want to say thank you to you, personally, as well, because you’ve done so much to work with us to bring this together. What a great event, what an important topic. Thank you. We really appreciate it. All right. It is now my great pleasure to introduce Laurel Hoffarth, Canadian Regional Engineer at Waste Connections of Canada. Waste Connections has generously sponsored many of our events this season, and is also our VIP Reception Season Sponsor. So, please join me in welcoming to the stage, Laurel Hoffarth.
Note of Appreciation by Laurel Hoffarth, Canadian Regional Engineer, Waste Connections of Canada
So, as many of you may know, I’m not Izzie Abrams, as the program says, but I’m going to do my best, to deliver these closing remarks. Personally, it was an honour for me to attend this event today. I feel truly inspired and motivated by the conversations that I’ve had throughout the day, as well as the speakers and the panellists. I’m here to thank the amazing group of panellists for their contribution to today’s discussion. There is no doubt that the themes touched on today will help all of us to unlock infrastructure opportunities in Canada, going forward. As the premier provider of solid waste collection, transfer, recycling, and disposal services, in primary and secondary markets across the US and Canada, we serve millions of customers daily. We do this while prioritising our partnerships with Indigenous communities, and the meaningful relationships that we have formed in the communities where we work and live.
However, we are an evolutionary company, and today’s conversation about partnerships and long-term relationships are critical, as they relate to the development of infrastructure. Waste Connections is continuously expanding our infrastructure, to continue servicing our communities, whether it is a recycling plant or a renewable natural gas facility. I want to thank our panellists, and the round table participants earlier from today, for such an interesting and inspiring discussion. Thank you.
Concluding Remarks by Jenna Donelson
Thanks, Laurel, for those great remarks, and thank you for the ongoing support. We deeply appreciate it. To everyone who has joined us today, both here in person, those of you online, thank you for being a part of this critical conversation. I’d also like to just take a moment to recognize the students and young leaders in the room. We have some students from TMU, Humber Polytechnic, and Queen’s University. And I would be remiss if I did not mention Fiona San Mateo, who may be our youngest leader in the room. Welcome, we’re glad you’re here. Thank you for being a part of our community, and advancing public dialogue on topics that matter.
To stay connected to us and our events, please subscribe to our newsletter, by scanning the QR code found on your tables. I hope you’ll join us at some of our upcoming events. On January 21st, our first event of the new year, we are excited to bring you our Annual Financial Outlook. This time, it will be focused on Canada’s place in the global economy in 2025, and beyond—something Martin touched on. This will be an intriguing conversation on the emerging world economy, and expectations for the year ahead. And on January 28th, Prem Watsa, founder, chairman and CEO of Fairfax Financial Holdings, will be receiving our 2024 Nation Builder Award. These are two events you won’t want to miss.
As a club of record, all Empire Club events are available to watch and listen to on our website, and a recording of this event will be available shortly. Thank you all for being here. I look forward to seeing you at our future events in the new year. This meeting is now adjourned.
