November 5, 2024
The Empire Club of Canada Presents
Going Global – How Canada’s Largest Gas Utility Is Becoming North America’s Largest
Chairperson: Jenna Donelson, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Moderator
Hannah Thibedeau, Executive Communications Officer, Global Public Affairs
Distinguished Guest Speaker
Michele Harradence, Executive Vice President & President, Gas Distribution and Storage, Enbridge Inc.
Head Table Guests
His Worship Rob Burton, Mayor of Oakville
Victoria Mancinelli, Director, PR & Communications, Strategic Partnerships, LiUNA
Welcome Address by Jenna Donelson, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon, and welcome to the Empire Club of Canada. My name is Jenna Donelson. I am the chair of this historic organization, and your host for today’s event. Thank you. I have a feeling I’m a familiar face to a few of you by now, who’ve been to our other energy events this season.
But to formally begin, I want to acknowledge that we are gathering on the Traditional and Treaty Lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat Peoples. I encourage you all to learn more about the Traditional Territory on which you live and work.
And I’d also like to begin by recognizing our sponsors. The Empire Club is a non-profit organization, and our sponsors generously support the club. They make these events possible, and they make viewing complementary, for those of you who are online. So, thank you to our Lead Sponsors, OEC, LiUNA, and Aecon. And thank you to our VIP Reception Sponsors, Sussex Strategy Group, and Waste Connections of Canada. And thank you, as well, to our Supporting Sponsors, Atura Power, Navigator Limited, TD Securities, and RBC Capital Markets. And I’d also like to take a moment to thank our Lead Season Sponsors, Bruce Power and Hydro One, and our VIP Reception Season Sponsor, Waste Connections of Canada. And finally, thank you to our Print Media Partner, the Toronto Star, and our AV Partner, Bespoke Audio Visual. Thank you, to you both.
If you have a question for our speakers, please scan the QR code that’s found on your program, or through the Q&A function if you are online. For those of you online, if you require technical assistance, please use the chat function to start a conversation with our team.
To get started, I would like to bring your attention to the screens, we have a video from one of our Lead Sponsors, Aecon, and I’d love to watch it with you.
[VIDEO:]
Aecon is a North American construction and infrastructure development company, with global expertise, transforming vision into reality. For more than 150 years, we’ve been building a diverse and dynamic portfolio, and today, proudly deliver some of the largest, most complex infrastructure projects in the world. Across multiple and diverse sectors, we provide integrated solutions for our clients that span the full project lifecycle, from project development, financing and investment, to construction and operations, and maintenance services. And we strive to do it all safely and sustainably, with a focus on decarbonization, and helping our clients navigate the global energy transition.
At Aecon, we’re building smarter, drawing on the latest technology to shape the future of construction, and to find innovative solutions to today’s most formidable infrastructure challenges. And every day, across our operations, our skilled workforce is guided by our values, safety, integrity, accountability, inclusion, as we remain committed to keeping our people and communities safe, and our projects moving forward. At Aecon, we’re not just delivering the infrastructure of tomorrow; we’re building what matters to enable future generations to thrive.
[END OF VIDEO]
Jenna Donelson
Great video. And thank you, Tim. Thank you, Aecon, for your ongoing support of the Empire Club, and for your commitment to building Ontario’s future. Today’s conversation is part of the Empire Club’s Fall Energy Series. Conversations like this one drive Ontario and Canada forward, as we consider how to build a prosperous and sustainable future. So, it is a great honour to welcome Michele Harradence, the President of Enbridge Gas, with us today. And Michele, we’re thrilled to have you enhancing this conversation on our stage at such a historic moment in the company’s history, too.
You have likely all already heard the news that propels Michele to our stage today. She and her team have been hard at work. In the past several months, Enbridge completed the acquisition of three US-based utilities, giving the company market access to millions of customers, across several states. This is a big deal, not only because it’s not every day that a major Canadian company acquires American companies, but because this makes Enbridge the largest natural gas utility franchise in North America. This is history-making, something we appreciate at the Empire Club, for sure. And as you’re all likely aware, the Ontario government has major energy ambitions, which include natural gas, among other energy sources, something Minister Lecce talked about at this podium just a couple of weeks ago. And having a North American natural gas powerhouse based in Ontario doesn’t just change the marketplace; it also changes the dynamics of Canadian politics, where the energy sector has traditionally been considered the domain of Alberta, or the East Coast. And at the same time, in addition to the Ontario government’s approach, this expansion is navigating a complex and challenging regulatory environment at the federal level. These are interesting times, to be sure, and exactly the conversations we need to have in Ontario, and across Canada. So, I’m so thrilled that Michele is here today, to lend her voice and perspective to these conversations.
And here to introduce her is His Worship, Rob Burton, the 45th mayor of Oakville. Mayor Burton has served Oakville since 2006, and has guided his city through a period of growth, while striving to maintain a great quality of life for the people who live there. So, will you all please join me in welcoming to the stage, Mayor Rob Burton.
Opening Remarks by His Worship Rob Burton, Mayor of Oakville
Ladies and gentlemen, as you heard, this is going to be a smart lunch. And Michele Harradence, as the Executive Vice President and President of Enbridge’s gas distribution and storage business, is already Canada’s largest natural gas utility. But these utilities acquired in the United States make her the leader of the largest utility in all of North America. She leads Enbridge utility operations in Ontario, in Québec, in North Carolina, in Ohio, Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming—I’ve been to some of those states. In Canada, Michele is responsible for leadership and operations of Ontario-based Enbridge Gas Inc, as well as Gasfier, and with Enbridge Sustain, and Enbridge Sustainable Solutions. And she came to these roles from her work as Chief Operations Officer for Enbridge’s gas transmission and midstream business unit in Houston, Texas. She has over 25 years of experience in the energy value creation chain. She knows the business upstream, downstream, mainstream, retail, and the service sectors for oil and gas. And in 2020, she was recognized as one of the top 50 most powerful women in oil and gas, by the National Diversity Council. Michele has a degree in mechanical engineering from Queen’s University, she has a law degree from the University of New Brunswick, she’s a graduate of Harvard’s Business School’s Advanced Management Program. Her background in engineering law and business may explain some of her success as a strategic leader, with a track record in business and operational transformations.
But I’ve seen up close and in person her visionary side. And that might be something you bring, rather than get in life. In 2022, Michele led the Enbridge side of a strategic partnership with Oakville Enterprises Corporation, and the Town of Oakville. We had been seeking a strategic partner, to accelerate growth on many fronts. Enbridge fit perfectly as an investor, a shareholder, and a partner. Together, we are driving both growth in energy infrastructure, and other sectors. For Enbridge, our partnership provides diversification into the electricity sector. And we value Enbridge as the partner who shares our vision for a transition to a sustainable energy future. We also share Michele’s commitment to safety—and I want to mention how proud I was to hear that Aecon mentioned safety, first, and that’s how we do it in Oakville, too. So, that’s an important thing, and that’s me proselytizing off script, here.
Michele serves on the boards of the Ontario Energy Association and the Canadian Gas Association, where she’s First Vice-Chair. And she’s a Maritimer at heart. She, in her free time, enjoys horses. But she’s splitting her time between Toronto and Houston, with her husband, and their two children, and two dogs. I think you’ll like her style, and her message, as we enjoy time with Michele Harradence today. The partnership with Enbridge is, I think, the most impactful thing I’ve done in 18 years for my town. I give you, a smart lunch with Michele Harradence.
Michele Harradence, Executive Vice President, Gas Distribution & Storage, Enbridge Inc.
All right. Well, thank you, Mayor, thanks, Rob, for that very kind introduction. And of course, thanks to OEC, for sponsoring today’s event. I really am honoured to be one of the speakers on the Empire Club’s fall roster. Thanks, Jenna, for extending this invitation. I’m particularly pleased to be following the club’s October sessions with Ontario’s premier, and our Minister of Energy and Electrification. It’s been great to see how wholeheartedly the Ontario government is embracing all forms of energy, as key enablers of economic growth.
Well, good afternoon, everyone. As we all know, Canada has two national sports: hockey, and US politics. I think today certainly has that Stanley Cup, game seven, overtime kind of vibe to it. And I’m very aware that today’s vote in the US is competing for everyone’s attention. So, first, I really appreciate that you chose to be here. And second—absolutely no judgment—if you look down at your phones, and those news updates start popping up, I completely understand. So, I’m a proud Canadian, I’m a proud Acadian. Our kids are 17th generation Canadians. It means a lot to us. And I’ve worked all over this great country. As the mayor said, I’ve also spent several years working outside of Canada, most recently with Enbridge in Houston. And I’ve been back here in Ontario, which is where I grew up, for close to three years now. And now—Jenna said it, the mayor said it, but I’m going to say it, too—with Enbridge’s recent $19 billion acquisition of new US assets, I consider myself incredibly fortunate to be leading the largest natural gas utility in North America. Thank you.
With infrastructure, employees, and customers across Ohio, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, and North Carolina, as well, of course, as Ontario and Québec, Enbridge Gas, which started right here in downtown Toronto, with 12 gas street lamps some 176 years ago, is now ensuring the delivery of safe and reliable energy to 7 million homes, schools, hospitals, and businesses across North America, every single day. That definitely broadens my professional perspective, and it certainly gives me an even bigger excuse for keeping an eye on my news feed today.
Now, I’m sure, given Hannah’s background as a veteran political journalist, we’ll be diving into this more deeply, following my remarks. So, to lay the groundwork for that conversation—which Hannah, I’m really looking forward to—I thought I’d take a few minutes to offer a North American perspective on a very Canadian conundrum. How can this country create a more competitive and attractive investment landscape? Well, here’s my view. If we want to get serious about reigniting investment in Canada, we need to start with energy. Reliable, resilient, and cost-effective energy has always been this country’s life force, and the foundation for a healthy economy, and our great quality of life. To sustain this life force, we must invest in it.
I want to unpack that a little bit more this morning—or this afternoon, rather—by talking about how energy is an economic spark, why investment in energy has been sputtering, what’s needed to change that, and the opportunity that lies ahead. Premier Ford, when speaking at this very lectern just a few weeks ago, stated, “Energy policy will be fundamental to the future of our province.” He could not be more correct. Now, let me illustrate that with a story. So, this summer, Enbridge Gas broke ground on a project to bring more natural gas to Southwestern Ontario. The Panhandle Regional Expansion Project, or PREP—because we, at Enbridge, have never met an acronym we didn’t love—PREP will be bringing energy to all kinds of customers, residents, businesses, industries, power generators, and greenhouses, just like Double Diamond Acres, down in Leamington. I was at Double Diamond in July for the project soil turning, along with the premier and Ministers Lecce and Oosterhoff. It was just a great day.
I don’t know how familiar all of you are with the fast-growing greenhouse industry that we have in Southwestern Ontario, but it is amazing what they’ve done down there. It’s the largest greenhouse cluster in North America, and some 80% or more of what they produce is exported to the US. I really like to think of it as that perfect nexus of food, energy, and water, right there on the north shore of Lake Erie. So, PREP’s a $350 million Enbridge project, that is projected to unlock $4.5 billion in investment opportunities in Ontario. That—thank you—that includes planned EV battery facilities in places like Windsor, and in St. Thomas. It’s a modest investment, relatively speaking, to provide cost-effective, reliable natural gas to homes and businesses, and to power the energy transition. Or as we at Enbridge like to refer to it, the energy evolution.
And we’re seeing this growing need for energy not just in Southwestern Ontario, but around the world. Global energy demand is on the rise. In the US, consumption is projected to continue increasing by as much as 15% by 2050. And here at home, Canada’s electricity demand is expected to double, in that same timeframe. To meet that demand, supply capacity is going to have to increase by a daunting two-to-three times what it is today. And that new power, it can’t be intermittent. My boss, our Enbridge CEO, Greg Ebel, is fond of saying, you cannot run a full-time economy on part-time power. We need all energy resources to meet energy needs, to fuel the economy, to keep costs down, and to reach net zero. More nuclear, and more oil, more renewables, more carbon capture, more efficiency, more innovation, and more natural gas. And this requires investment. Investment to modernize assets, to develop new projects, and to advance technologies that will support the energy evolution. When Minister Lecce spoke here recently, he talked about the premier’s vision of harnessing Ontario’s potential to become a leading exporter of energy technology. And that is something I wholeheartedly support, and it’s something that is going to take investment. It’s projected that meeting Canada’s 2050 net zero targets could require investments in the $1.5 to $2 trillion range.
The harsh reality is, we will not meet our future energy needs at today’s pace of investment. Canada’s inventory of major energy projects has been waning for almost a decade. Between 2015 and 2023, the total number of completed projects declined by 36%. Why is that? Well, to begin with, energy investors look at Canada, and they see a tangle of regulatory knots, an unwelcoming tax climate, and tepid, fragmented incentives that cannot compete with those that are on offer right next door. So, what’s needed to turn that around? Well, certainly, we need to simplify. We need to simplify the regulatory burden on the energy sector. The goal should be clear, well-designed regulatory frameworks, that offer certainty to investors, and regulatory processes that get us to a yes or a no in a reasonable time frame. We also need to simplify the complexity of both the tax and incentive systems. The goal there should be a rational, competitive tax structure that investors understand, along with efficient economic incentives, right across the energy sector. If we can get these three elements working, and working together cohesively, they can be magnets that actually help attract investment.
Let’s take a look at Ontario. Electricity demand alone is now forecast to increase by a whopping 75%, over the next 25 years. In late August, Ontario launched the largest competitive energy procurement in the province’s history, as part of what it calls an all-of-the-above energy resource approach. Less than two weeks ago, Minister Lecce stood here and talked about the government’s plans to make Ontario an energy superpower. And he made a point of saying that we need to leverage private capital, to build our energy systems for the next generation. We at Enbridge are all in favour. We’ve been invested in this province’s success for more than 175 years, and we want to keep that up.
But the reality is, it’s becoming increasingly challenging to attract energy investment to Ontario. That’s due, at least in part, to a regulatory environment that’s clearly out-of-step with the government’s goals on economic development, and housing affordability. And for the utility space, that regulatory uncertainty means more uncertainty around recovery of capital. Investors need a reasonable degree of certainty, with respect to recovery on, and of capital. Without this, that capital will flow elsewhere. Couple that uncertainty with the fact that regulated utilities in Canada are at a competitive disadvantage, in terms of attracting capital, and I think you can start to see the problem. Despite increased risk, making debt financing more expensive, the debt-to-equity ratio in the capital structures—and that is a regulatory mandated debt-to-equity ratio—remains well below the US average. ROEs also lag, relative to the US.
So, let me, let me explain how that plays into our thinking at Enbridge. Through that lens, when we’re considering capital allocation in North America’s largest natural gas utility, we now see options with better rates of return, and less uncertainty, than Ontario or Québec. You know, as a regulated utility, we have a responsibility to make prudent investments, to deliver natural gas to our customers safely, reliably, and cost-effectively. There is no question about that. We also have a responsibility, a fiduciary responsibility, to our shareholders—likely, many of you. Our shareholders are also many Canadians who hold us as part of their mutual funds, or their pension funds.
My mother-in-law is 101 years old. She lives independently in her home, in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan—class of Meds ‘49 from Queens, for my Queens colleagues—she has held our shares for decades. Just like a utility with its rate payers, we as Enbridge have investors, like my mother-in-law, who count on us to invest prudently, and to protect their money. We have an obligation to responsibly invest every dollar our shareholders give us. And quite simply, every dollar of capital we at Enbridge invest in our US utilities comes with better certainty we will recover that investment, and at a better rate of return.
Now, we can’t also forget the importance of tax competitiveness. Well, what does that look like in Canada? I’d have to say current signs are mixed, at best. Our tax system just keeps getting more complex. The recent changes to the Capital Gains Tax, while framed in fairness and predictability, are just the latest signs that Canada is disadvantaged. And the recent proposed changes to those changes, we just can’t keep patching over a system that needs a complete rewiring. Take Bill C-59, as another example. That single piece of legislation alone provides an Investment Tax Credit, and an increased tax on investment. And at the same time, it introduces extraordinary penalties against businesses for making environmental claims, as measured against an as-yet-undefined standard. The reality is, quite simply, it muddies the water. And that uncertainty chases away investment.
Now, finally, let me say a quick word about incentives. Historically, our proximity to the US has been a real plus for us. We’ve always relied on each other, importing and exporting energy through pipes and wires at many points across our borders. And the US has been our largest energy export market. This same opportunity exists, as our energy systems evolve, if we are prepared to get serious about attracting investment. More than two years ago, the Inflation Reduction Act became law in the US, the single-largest investment in climate and energy in American history. The act was designed to be private sector-led, and government-enabled. Instead of introducing mandates, what the IRA does is it gives tax breaks to companies that deploy clean technologies. As of this June, funding from the IRA has led to more than $360 billion US dollars in investments, and the creation of more than 300,000 jobs. Mills are producing lower-carbon steel, oil companies are investing in hydrogen, and battery makers are springing up, to serve the EV market.
Meanwhile, Canada’s Investment Tax Credits only became law this past June. And certainly, while ITCs will play an important role in attracting investment in lower-carbon energy solutions, there are only one piece of the puzzle, and part of a larger patchwork of fragmented incentives. This fragmented approach does little to provide the certainty that investors need, when determining where to deploy capital. To attract investment, we need to look at incentives differently, regulatory frameworks differently, tax structures differently. And we need to look at making them work together cohesively, with a holistic vision to the future, so that, rather than slowing investment down, they’re accelerating it.
I’ll say it again. If we want to get serious about reigniting investment in Canada, we need to start with energy. Investing in reliable, resilient, cost-effective energy. And that includes natural gas. It’s how we will grow our critical manufacturing sector, how we will support our burgeoning greenhouse sector, how we will underpin our mining sector, as the global need for critical minerals continues to soar. You may think and be hearing about that the US already has a lock on data centres, but we’re getting those calls in Ontario, too. It’s not surprising. I mean, just look at the important place the University of Toronto has in the world of AI. We want to say yes, when we get those calls.
Some of you may know this. All four of Enbridge business units operate right here in Ontario. We are deeply invested in Ontario’s success. And we want to help this province’s economy keep growing. But we need governments and regulators at all levels to create the conditions that will facilitate investment in Ontario’s energy infrastructure. We need to see consistency, in every step of the process, from government policy, to regulation, to permitting. The opportunities are out there, and the stakes have never been higher. If Canada can’t attract the energy investment we need in production, generation, transportation, and distribution, we risk becoming net importers. We risk becoming dependent on energy, and energy technology generated elsewhere, at a cost set elsewhere. And if energy investments go elsewhere, so too will investments in other sectors of the economy. But if we can, we re-energize Canada’s life force, ensuring we have the reliable, resilient, cost-effective energy we need to fuel our economy confidently, into the future. Thank you very much.
Jenna Donelson
Thank you, Michele, for that impassioned speech, and that blueprint for prosperity. We appreciate it. All right, come on up, Hannah. Our moderator needs no introduction, but I’d like to give her a brief one, anyways, if you don’t mind. We all know Hannah Thibodeau, who is a longtime veteran journalist, has covered a tremendous number of momentous occasions in our country, and is now the Executive—sorry, I’ve forgotten the—Communications Officer at Global Public Affairs. Please join me in welcoming Hannah Thibodeau to the stage, as our moderator.
Hannah Thibedeau, Executive Communications Officer, Global Public Affairs
Thank you so much, Jenna. This is an honour to sit down, have a chance to chat with a proud Canadian, proud Acadian, both from the East Coast. So….
Michele Harradence
Thibodeau’s a good Acadian name, too.
Hannah Thibedeau
Exactly. Had to point that out. It’s the Nova Scotia connection, up in here.
Michele Harradence
That’s right.
Hannah Thibedeau
Michele, I want to start first, there’s a lot of news happening right now, so I’m going to tackle two of those big news issues. Of course, you brought up one. Everybody—yeah, you’re still checking your phones, and Michele gave you permission to do that. The US election that’s happening, it has me nervous. But when it comes to energy in Canada, how might you see this affecting energy, and Enbridge?
Michele Harradence
Yeah, you know, it’s, we’re really uniquely positioned as Enbridge, I’d say, as a Canadian company, to see that. We’ve been operating in the US for a very, very long time. We probably have as many folks who work for us in the US, as we do in Canada. And like you keep hearing, and I’ll just keep repeating, we are North America’s largest natural gas utility now. But we’re also, actually, the largest crude oil transportation in North America. We have the largest crude oil offshore loading terminal, down in Corpus Christi, and we have a very large gas transmission system that goes around North America. And we’re actually, our renewables business is so large, and it makes us one of the continent’s largest. It really allows us to look at all things. And, and we have a very conservative—you know, I always think of my mother-in-law, when I think of our investments—we have a very conservative profile that we take. So, we feel very, very comfortable that we’re well set up into the future. But regardless of who’s elected, what we see from both parties is that recognition that access to energy, access to affordable energy, is critical for economic development, and energy security. So, working with them on that is something we’re really looking forward to.
And I would just maybe share, you know, as part of acquiring these utilities, of course, you go and meet with stakeholders, and that sort of thing. And whether it was Governor Cox in Utah, who’s a Republican, or Governor Cooper in North Carolina, who’s a Democrat, they were very clear with me when I met with them, which is to say, we have reliable, affordable energy here in our state, and it is critical for our economic development. They also said, don’t screw it up. Absolutely black-and-white. But what they’ve done is they’ve recognized how much it empowers—and those are two of the fastest growing states, population and industry-wise, there are; they’re fantastic places. And they’ve recognized that supporting that growth can go hand-in-hand with creating a, a competitive investment environment, where investors, like I said, have certainty about what’s going to happen.
Hannah Thibedeau
And you look in the United States and don’t screw it up, because it’s 3 million more customers.
Michele Harradence
It is a lot of more customers, yes.
Hannah Thibedeau
Okay, I’m going to have to ask you about another thing that’s in the news here in Canada. On Monday, the emissions cap was announced. You took a deep breath…
Michele Harradence
Yep.
Hannah Thibedeau
…when I asked you that. How will that affect Enbridge?
Michele Harradence
So, I’m going to say this as, certainly as a representative of Enbridge, but also, as somebody who’s worked for over 25 years in energy. I’ve worked in the oil sands, I’ve run refineries in Sarnia, I’ve worked on the retail side of gas processing plants, in northern BC. We are incredibly responsible, here in Canada. Our producers and the energy that we produce is the most responsible in the world. I feel very passionate about that. So, the idea of adding more burdens, more regulatory complexity, I just don’t think it’s necessary. We’re already demonstrating how good and responsible operators we are. I don’t think it helps.
Hannah Thibedeau
When you had a bit of a discussion up there about your history—and we did, as I came up here, because I learned you’re from Cape Breton, as well.
Michele Harradence
Born in Cape Breton, yes.
Hannah Thibedeau
Born in Cape Breton.
Michele Harradence
My dad would correct you, to say I was from—yeah.
Hannah Thibedeau
Where would you say you’re….
Michele Harradence
So, I was born in Cape Breton, but my family’s from New Brunswick.
Hannah Thibedeau
Oh. Okay. Okay.
Michele Harradence
Yes.
Hannah Thibedeau
Still the East Coast.
Michele Harradence
Yeah.
Hannah Thibedeau
Still the East Coast. We also have questions here, but I want to get to this, because I want to learn a little bit about your history, as to how you ended up here on this stage…
Michele Harradence
Sure.
Hannah Thibedeau
…talking about this now. You’re extremely passionate about this issue. How did you get there?
Michele Harradence
You know, I think I’ve been incredibly fortunate, some of the opportunities I’ve had in my career. Incredibly fortunate to have a very supportive family that’s come along with me, as we’ve done that. We have lived all over North America; it’s not just me, who had those opportunities. And our move to Houston was our fifth move in eight years. Between deciding that I had ruined her life, my daughter Simone, she, she came back from university—she went to university in the US, she went to the University of Chicago—and she came back after her first year and she said, “You know, Mom, there’s single-city kids and there’s multi-city kids, and we’re just kind of different.” And I’m like, “Yeah, okay. One for Mom. Maybe it’s not so bad.” But it’s given us opportunities, absolutely. And it’s given me huge opportunities, to see different approaches to, to energy.
You know, one of my most favourite jobs that I had was, actually, running a refinery down in Sarnia. And it was a challenging role; we had a lot of challenges with our stakeholders. But it really taught me how important it is to be considering your community, and supporting your community, and being a good neighbour. We actually developed a plan, while I was there, that I know the team there—they’re fantastic folks—is continuing to develop, and that’s that our neighbours shouldn’t be able to see us, hear us, or smell us. That was part of being a good neighbour—because sometimes they could, on all three things. And that’s what I love about the utility space. Is the utility space, one of our, one of companies that’s now called Enbridge Gas North Carolina, it’s called Public Service of North Carolina. And the word “Service” shows up in every gas utility, and I think in most of the electric utilities, as well. Folks who work in utilities very much consider themselves to be in service to their community. So, as much as, you know, we can get excited about being the largest, in all the things we do, what’s core to us is that safe, reliable, we keep people safe and warm in their homes. That’s what we do, and we can’t lose sight of that.
Hannah Thibedeau
175 years here in Ontario.
Michele Harradence
That’s right.
Hannah Thibedeau
I was surprised to see the number.
Michele Harradence
Twelve street lamps; I’m told that there’s still a couple of them down by the St. Lawrence Market.
Hannah Thibedeau
Really?
Michele Harradence
Yes. Yeah.
Hannah Thibedeau
Okay, I’m gonna have to go look at those, as well. I wanna bring up something else you spoke about in your speech, as well, and dig into that a little bit. You mentioned Minister Lecce, who spoke here earlier. What were your thoughts on his speech?
Michele Harradence
Well, I’d really commend where the government’s going. They’ve become very crisp and clear about the role that energy plays in economic development. The procurement was very clear: all of the above, is what we’re looking for. They’re doing it in a super responsible way. It doesn’t mean they’ve lost sight of their aspirations around developing sustainable energy. That’s important. We can’t pick and choose which of safe, reliable, affordable, and sustainable we want. It’s gotta be all four, and we’re very aligned with them. So, we’re really here to do everything we can to continue to support that growth for another 175 years.
QUESTION & ANSWER
Hannah Thibedeau
I’m gonna go to a question from the audience…
Michele Harradence
Sure.
Hannah Thibedeau
…because it kind of ties to this. How does Enbridge encourage new housing developments to use gas and electricity, rather than just electricity? That’s a good question.
Michele Harradence
Sure, it’s a great question. So, one of the things that, when you look at trying to reduce your emissions footprints, one of the things that we know is the most important investment you can make is in energy efficiency. That—and I’d say that’s the most important, because it’s the most cost-effective one you can make. But with that, what we’re also trying to do is make sure that we recognize that we live in Canada, quite frankly, and it can get really cold. So, that, that piece about taking people’s safety seriously, keeping people safe and warm in their homes. What we’ve done—and we’ve worked with others, we’ve piloted it for several years now with the government of Ontario—is what we call hybrid heating. So, what that has is you’ll have, say, your air-sourced heat pump, that provides your air conditioning and your heat, and really can be what you run with most of the time, if you want, but you have that backup. And we think that’s important. You have that backup on those coldest days, to provide you with that gas furnace, and to provide you that heat. And then, of course, there are folks who also want gas for their outdoor kitchens, or whatever, and their fireplace, or whatever else it might be. But like I said, we always dial back to, are we keeping people safe and warm in their homes? And we’ve launched, the mayor mentioned it, we’ve launched Enbridge Sustain. Some of you might have heard some of our ads on the radio, actually, here, and the leader of that business is here with us today.
Hannah Thibedeau
So, I wanna ask you, as well, a lot of the times, when we’re talking about the US, we see American companies come and buy, here in Canada; this is the other way around. So, we should be proud of that. Dig into that a little bit.
Michele Harradence
So, we should be proud of that.
Hannah Thibedeau
Yeah.
Michele Harradence
I mean, I think, I’ve shared this story a few times, that we were hiring a new leader in our, actually, to lead Enbridge Sustain, and when we met with him, he said, “You know, when I was talking to the recruitment firm, they said Enbridge is Canada’s largest company that you really don’t know much about.” And it’s true. I think, in Ontario, people see us as the gas company; in Alberta, they see us as the oil pipelines, and that sort of thing. You know, we’ve had a name and a presence in the US, for a while. But it feels really good to go in and, as a large Canadian company, be acquiring the US utilities and US assets. But I think as Canadians—and I’m gonna separate—this is what we go and do, because we’re responsible investors, as I said, of our shareholders’ dollars. And we looked at these utilities, and we said, you know, do people want more natural gas? Is there a world for natural gas? And we really believe that it is part of the energy evolution.
Well, what about right here in North America? Because we’ve long been focused on LNG terminals. We connect to most of the LNG in the US Gulf Coast, for example. We’ve long been focused on sending North America’s natural gas to the world. I mentioned that we operate the, North America’s largest crude oil terminal, same sort of thing. What about here in North America? And we really felt, yes, that is still a tool. It’s something we need in North America, to continue the path we’ve been on, decarbonization.
And then, well, what about gas utilities? Well, that goes back, I always go back to my mother-in-law. That’s that nice, secure return—she’s awesome—that nice, secure return that we generate for our shareholders. We’ve long spoken about being very utility-like, in terms of our return, and obviously, you don’t get more utility-like than utilities. And then these particular gas utilities, I mentioned before, the growth that you see in places like Utah and North Carolina is fantastic. They’ve got an excellent utility that’s been around 150 years, I think, in Ohio; also very good. And they’re in jurisdictions where they’re clearly aligned between the regulatory framework, government policy, and they recognize that creating a, a strong and stable platform for investment is part of the future. I think, so that’s my Enbridge business hat on. Now, if I put my hat as a Canadian on, that’s $19 billion we didn’t invest up here; we pushed it down there. So, how do we feel about that, and how can we do more to attract that investment up here?
Hannah Thibedeau
Let that sink in for a minute, 19 billion that wasn’t invested here. Okay. Everybody’s thinking about that one. This is from the audience, and I’m sure this came because of the emissions cap question. But how will Enbridge invest today, to create value for its shareholders in an investment climate that is being realigned to green energy, and phasing out hydrocarbons?
Michele Harradence
You know, when Minister Lecce was here a couple weeks ago, he said it’s time to have an intellectually honest conversation about energy. And I really believe that that’s starting to happen now. I think there’s a growing recognition. No question, we need safe, reliable, and affordable energy into the future, and it needs to be done in a sustainable way. No doubt about that. And, you know, we’ve been on that path for a long time at Enbridge. I mentioned earlier, our renewables platform is one of the largest on the continent. That’s our renewable power; we’re in Europe in renewables, as well. We were the first to blend hydrogen into the gas system in North America. Right here, we have our facility in, in Markham that’s doing that, to some 4,000 homes. We were some of the first to focus on renewable natural gas. And in fact, we’ve spent several—at the same time as we announced this utility acquisition, we announced an acquisition that led to a billion dollars of investment in renewable natural gas. Our point is simply that that energy infrastructure, and that system, and those gases, can go long into the future. They’re part of the solution, not part of the problem. Particularly, obviously, if they’re managed in a responsible way. You know, we started with coal gas and manufactured gas, here in Toronto. We didn’t move to natural gas ‘til the ’50s. We’ve gone through a number of energy transitions. So, we’re not too concerned about the next one, as we move forward.
Hannah Thibedeau
You’re feeling pretty confident.
Michele Harradence
Yeah.
Hannah Thibedeau
Here’s another question: kindly tell us more about the nexus of sustainability, energy evolutions, and climate change, in Enbridge’s expansion. And we kind of just had a little bit of a discussion.
Michele Harradence
Yeah, the piece I would add to that that is, really, becoming maybe more of a conversation is around energy security. So, we’ve been talking about the energy trilemma of affordability, reliability, and sustainability. And that security piece is getting more and more play, too.
Hannah Thibedeau
You were clear up there what we need for more investment here. And we were talking on Friday before we did this, and I kind of thought this term was interesting. There’s an opportunity drain. And I felt that was an interesting way to describe it, because we were also talking about the brain drain.
Michele Harradence
Yeah.
Hannah Thibedeau
So, how do you continue to get investment, if there’s an opportunity drain, and a brain drain?
Michele Harradence
Well, by speaking up about it, and I think it is exactly what I said, by having industry, government, regulators, investors all coming together. It’s that clarity of where are we going. I think the government of Ontario, in particular, has been doing a great job lately of saying: this is where we’re going, this is what we need to do, we believe these things can come together. And I think there’s a few other layers we need to work our way through, to align with that clear vision that they have, and we can get there.
Hannah Thibedeau
When you look to the future, what do you see, say, in 10 years down the road?
Michele Harradence
You know, I, when I look to the future, if I think of Enbridge, in particular, here in Ontario, I really am excited about the opportunity to grow this sustained business that we have. I think it’s the right answer. You know, we, we wanna make sure you’re safe and warm in your homes. I keep going back to that. And we think those hybrid solutions, and that sort of innovation, is critical to it. So, I think that’s one thing, on the residential side. The other thing that I’m really excited about that we’ve been doing—and maybe it’s the engineer in me, who loves going and visiting things like steel plants—but when we look at the steel industry, natural gas is a big part of decarbonizing that industry. As they come off of coal and onto natural gas, that’s huge. So, the role we can play there is really important. And then even when we look at the automotive sector, I mentioned earlier, our Panhandle Project is going to these EV manufacturing facilities, because they need certain conditions to operate in. It’s part of the solution. And it really excites me.
And I have to say, I graduated a long time ago, but I graduated in the early ’90s from Queens, in mechanical engineering. And when we started in the late ’80s, it was all about, you’re gonna work in nuclear, you’re gonna work in automotive. Well, there wasn’t that going on. I went to law school ,’cause I was like, okay, well, I guess I’ll do that. I wound up in Western Canada. We’re back here talking about things like nuclear and automotive again, and that is fantastic for Ontario. It’s gotta take this time, and we’ve gotta keep moving forward. That’s my view. And I think energy is what we need to empower that.
Hannah Thibedeau
What do you say to younger people?
Michele Harradence
About energy, or?
Hannah Thibedeau
Yeah. Like, how do you make sure that they’re involved in this conversation, too?
Michele Harradence
You know, it’s that nexus—I mentioned the nexus of food, energy, and water, that we see in the greenhouses. It’s that, like we need, those are those fundamental building blocks that we need, to support our life. Like, we have a great quality of life, here in Canada. I think we take it for granted, a little bit. We take for granted the affordability that we’ve had in the past. We should not assume it’s gonna be there in the future, unless we do the things to course-correct right now. You know, and yeah, that’s what I say to them—my daughter’s an economist; she graduated in economics, and I’m always on her about, where are they getting their food? Where’s the water coming from? Where is the energy coming from?
Hannah Thibedeau
I think it might be something that we have to remind them a little bit, too.
Michele Harradence
The lights, there’s a lot of work that goes on to turning on those lights that you might not see, as much as just touching the switch.
Hannah Thibedeau
Absolutely. Michele Harradence, I wanna thank you for this conversation today. It was a real pleasure.
Michele Harradence
Well, thank you. It was great.
Jenna Donelson
Thank you guys so much.
Michele Harradence
Thank you, Jenna.
Michele Harradence
Thank you, Hannah, for expertly guiding that discussion. I thank Michele, thank you for your comments, as well. What’s becoming illuminating for all of us is this isn’t just a conversation about Ontario; this is about a national discussion. This isn’t just a conversation about energy. This is about our future economic prosperity and security. And as I mentioned before, exactly the conversations we need to be having. So, thank you. And to close, I’d like to invite someone who always has our future prosperity on her mind, Victoria Mancinelli, Director of PR and Communications, as well as Strategic Partnerships at LiUNA. She’s a longtime friend of the Empire Club. It’s my pleasure to welcome her to the stage. Please join me, in welcoming Victoria.
Note of Appreciation By Victoria Mancinelli, Director, PR & Communications, Strategic Partnerships, LiUNA
Good afternoon, everyone. Before I begin my formal appreciation remarks, part of my role at LiUNA is attracting, retaining, and mentoring more women in skilled trades, in our energy sector. And I know with the capable leadership of Michele, our future is very bright, and we will continue to strengthen our workforce, where women are heard and respected, as well.
Michele, we appreciate your comments on how we need to keep pace with supporting reliable energy infrastructure, investments, and the importance of standing by customers, to maintain an affordable energy system. I am proud to be here on behalf of LiUNA, the largest building trades union in Canada, representing 160,000 skilled men and women, and over 500,000 men and women across the United States, who are integral to the growth, function, strength, and connectivity of our energy sector, working in tandem with our industry partners like Enbridge. LiUNA commends the province’s vision to expand Ontario’s clean energy economy, and share the conviction that we can be an economic powerhouse within the broader North American economy for energy and electrification. Now, we do have some work to do with our federal government, which you heard, but I’ll save those comments for another day.
Michele, we share your passion and conviction that reliable and affordable energy is a cornerstone to our industrial and economic competitiveness. Ontario needs to maintain a diversity of supply for our electricity and heating needs. That includes natural gas, natural gas infrastructure, that LiUNA members continue to build across our country, which is key to a strong and prosperous future. We look forward to our continued partnership and collaboration with Enbridge, and on behalf of LiUNA, we extend our sincerest congratulations on going global, and becoming North America’s largest natural gas utility. Thank you.
Concluding Remarks by Jenna Donelson
Thanks, Victoria, for those great remarks, and for LiUNA’s ongoing support of the Empire Club, and continued dedication to training workers, in some of the sectors where we need them most. As we end today’s event, thank you all for joining us, to take part in this essential discussion. We owe a special thanks to our sponsors, whose support drives these events forward for the Empire Club. And I’d also like to take a moment to recognize the students and young leaders we have in the room; I think we have some from TMU, and U of T. We’re glad you’re here. Thank you for being a part of our community. Thank you. And thank you for helping advance public dialogue on topics that matter.
To stay connected, please subscribe to our newsletter, by scanning the QR code on your tables. We hope you join us for some of our upcoming events. I have two very exciting events to announce today. First, on December 10th, the Empire Club is proudly presenting a panel conversation focused on “Indigenous Partnerships, a New Way Forward to Unlock Canadian Infrastructure.” This expert panel discussion will focus on the impact of Indigenous partnerships on Indigenous communities, and on Canadian infrastructure. And it will also feature introductory remarks by Chief Cindy Woodhouse, National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations. So, tickets for this significant discussion are available now.
And I’m also delighted to announce that on December 17th, continuing our Energy Series, we have Danielle Smith, Premier of Alberta, and Andrew Furey, Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, coming together for a timely conversation on the energy trilemma, sustainability, affordability, and reliability, that Michele mentioned just a couple of minutes ago. So, for this one, each premier will deliver remarks, before sitting down for a moderated discussion, and will continue to expand our understanding and get to the heart of some of these national issues. You’ll be able to get tickets for that one soon.
As a Club of Record, all Empire Club events are available to watch and listen to on our website. The recording of this event will be available shortly. With that, I say thank you again. Have a great day. This meeting is now adjourned.
