May 19, 2026
The Empire Club of Canada Presents
Culture as Infrastructure: Toronto’s Next Decade of Live Experiences
Chairman: Saurabh Popat, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Moderator
Laura deCarufel, Director of Culture & Lifestyle, The Toronto Star; Editor-in-Chief, The Kit
Distinguished Guest Speakers
Wayne Zronik, Live Nation, President of Business Operations
Kristy Fletcher, Chief Operating Officer, The Canadian Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences
The Honourable Stan Cho, Ontario’s Minister of Tourism, Culture and Gaming
Head Table Guests
Kyle Brooks, Chief Executive Officer, Bespoke Audio Visual
Kent Emerson, Chief Executive Officer, Empire Club of Canada
Welcome Address by Saurabh Popat, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Saurabh Popat. I’m the chair of the board of the Empire Club of Canada, and your host for today’s event.
To formally begin, I want to acknowledge the we are gathering on the Traditional and Treaty Lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat Peoples. I encourage you all to learn more about the Traditional Territory on which you work and live.
And today’s event would not be possible without the generous support of our incredible sponsors. The Empire Club is a non-profit organization and our sponsors generously support the club, and make these events possible and complimentary for our online viewers to attend. So, please join me in thanking our Lead Sponsor, Bespoke Audio Visual, thank you. Thank you to our VIP Reception Sponsor, Ellis Don. Thank you. And we also deeply appreciate the ongoing support of our Lead Season Sponsors, Bruce Power, Hydro One and National Bank Capital Markets, and our VIP Reception Season Sponsors, Ellis Don, McKinsey & Company, the Ontario Road Builders Association, and Waste Connections of Canada. Thank you. And finally, thank you to our Media Partner, the Toronto Star and our AV Partner, Bespoke Audio Visual.
If you have a question for our speakers, please scan the QR code found on your program or through the Q&A function, if you’re online. And for those of you online, if you require technical assistance, please use the chat feature.
Did you know that being here today, you are participants in Toronto’s experience economy? That’s right. Events like this one, plus live music, major league sports, and festivals do much more than drive the cultural life of our city. The events you and all of us attend, the experiences you share with colleagues and friends, that helps to drive our economy forward. Personally, I’ve been a part of this journey as well, especially at the new Rogers Stadium last year. And recent findings by Live Nation show that the Rogers Stadium generated more than 500 million in economic activity during its inaugural season, highlighting the essential role that live music plays in Toronto’s cultural economy.
And that’s just domestic traffic. Our visitor economy is breaking records. Last year, Toronto welcomed more than 28 million people. Together, they spent over $9 billion in our city’s restaurants, hotels, and attractions. All of that is, of course, amazing news. That said, our long-term commercial and cultural strategies were built for a different time. A time when cultural experiences were not quite as big a driver of economic activity. Which is why leaders in the sector believe that we must align our infrastructure and our policies with the realities of a modern experience-driven city.
Now, just as this is an ongoing discussion in our city, it is also an ongoing conversation for our club. In 1969, Mayor William Denison was perhaps the first to detect the way the city was changing. He noted that while Toronto was growing and changing, it also needed something else, something more to sustain visits and tourism. He said, once people realize that Toronto is indeed a city on the move, the next step is to show them that it is also a city with heart.
Today, we will ask what it takes to build that heart. We look at the stages and the civic networks that keep our country competitive. This event launches our Experience Economy Series. And we’re here today to explore how live experiences function as a critical economic and civic infrastructure driver. These experiences require a physical stage, but they also require technical excellence.
Our AV Partner, Bespoke Audio Visual, provides the infrastructure that makes these moments possible. They create the connective tissue between the speaker and the audience. They design the immersive environments that turn individual events into lasting memories. Their work ensures that the stories that we tell today reach our audience with clarity and impact. I now invite Kyle Brooks, CEO of Bespoke Audio Visual, to the stage to share a few remarks. Kyle.
Kyle Brooks, Chief Executive Officer, Bespoke Audio Visual
Good afternoon, everyone. My name’s—I’ll be brief—my name’s Kyle Brooks. I’m CEO of Bespoke, and I’m very proud to be here today to introduce a conversation that feels both personal to me and timely, how culture serves as infrastructure. I come to this conversation from the live events and the audio visual industry. We see every day that culture is not abstract. It’s created and delivered by an ecosystem of venues, and technicians, and producers, and artists, and planners, and suppliers, and hotels, and neighbourhood businesses.
This is also an important moment for me, personally. In April, we launched Avera Audio Visual, bringing together ProShow in Western Canada, Bespoke in Central Canada, and XPAV in Québec to create Canada’s largest privately owned audio visual company. That launch was built around a simple belief—and I say this because it’s relevant to what we’re talking about today, which is that Canada deserves a national audio visual company built on local expertise and local infrastructure.
That connects directly to what we’re gonna talk about today. If culture is infrastructure and helps a city to define itself and grow, then the businesses and the people behind that culture matter. The strength of a live event ecosystem should be measured not only by the moments it creates, but how deeply it’s rooted to the communities that it serves. That rootedness includes ownership. When Canadian companies help build and deliver Canadian cultural moments, decisions stay closer to the communities being served, value is reinvested here, and accountability remains tied to the places that make the work possible. For Toronto and for Canada, the question is not if we can attract world class events; it’s whether the ecosystem behind those events is strong and competitive and locally rooted and Canadian owned. Now, more than ever, Canadian ownership matters, because it supports the long term infrastructure required for a thriving economy, and for a thriving event industry.
Today’s panel brings together perspectives that matter, and it’s my pleasure to introduce one of those voices to you. Wayne Zronik is the president of business operations with Live Nation. Live Nation brings the perspective of one of the largest entertainment platforms in the world, including major investments in venues and experiences that are reshaping Toronto’s live event landscape. With more than 25 years of experience, Wayne brings together strategic leadership, and a deep understanding of Canada’s live music landscape. Under his leadership, Live Nation has grown its portfolio substantially, opening History Toronto, TD Coliseum, Roger Stadium, and later this year, the company will open History Ottawa.
What connects all of this is the central question, if live experiences are essential infrastructure, what do we need to build, protect, and strengthen for Canada to lead? With that, I’m very pleased to welcome Wayne to the stage, to open the important conversation about culture as infrastructure.
Wayne Zronik, Live Nation, President of Business Operations
Hello, packed house. I was pleased to see that no tickets were available for higher than face value on the resale market for today’s event. So, anyway, good afternoon, everyone. It’s great to be here at the Empire Club, as we kick off a conversation about something that matters deeply to all of us in this room. How Toronto can strengthen the cultural foundation that makes the city vibrant, competitive, and globally relevant. This is a big week for the entire team at Live Nation Canada, as we open the doors for our second season at Rogers Stadium with five sold-out Bruno Mars shows, and our 31st season at the Amp, and its inaugural year as RBC Amphitheatre. This will be one of the busiest seasons Toronto has ever seen. Between the two venues, we will have more than 100 shows and welcome more than two million fans, and they’re joining a city that is already thriving with more than 28 million visitors, $9 billion in spending across our restaurants, hotels, venues, and our main streets. It’s a powerful reminder that live experiences don’t just entertain, they drive the economy. And Toronto has a lot of momentum right now. We can’t let the demand for great events outpace the infrastructure to accommodate them, and long-term planning is needed to sustain it. If live experiences are the new infrastructure of a modern city, then we need our policy partnerships and investment models to keep building a culture that drives both community and commerce.
And that’s why today’s conversation matters, and I’m honoured to introduce somebody who has been a real champion for this sector. Minister Stan Cho, first elected in 2018, has spent his career tackling complex, system-wide challenges for modernizing transit payments across the GTHA, to expanding long-term care capacity, to strengthening oversight and safety in some of the province’s most important public-facing sectors. And now, as Minister of Tourism, Culture, and Gaming, he’s brought the same focus to elevating Ontario’s visitor economy from the Destination Niagara strategy to the redevelopment of Ontario Place, which we’re proud to be a partner of, into a world-class, year-round destination. He understands that tourism and culture aren’t side projects. They’re economic engines, job creators, and core to how Canada and Ontario competes on the global stage. So, please join me in welcoming my friend, the Honourable Stan Cho, Ontario’s Minister of Tourism, Culture, and Gaming.
The Honourable Stan Cho, Ontario’s Minister of Tourism, Culture and Gaming
Well, thank you, Wayne, for that very kind introduction, and hi, Mom. I mean that literally. She’s watching the live stream right now, so. [Applause] Yeah, you can clap for my Mom. She’s awesome. So look, this is, I’m getting a real kick out of this. It is a pleasure to be here. I’ve been, of course, to the Empire Club for—well, since I’ve been elected, but never on this side of the podium. So, a real special moment for me, and I wanna thank you to the Empire Club for making this happen for me today. So, pretty humbling looking at this room, and seeing the business and thought leaders who are here today. And, of course, you understand, as I do, and as Wayne just said, that tourism and culture are central to Toronto and Ontario’s economic success, and long-term prosperity.
So, today’s chat, “Culture As Infrastructure,” really gets to the heart of how our city works, grows and competes globally. You know, when most people hear the word infrastructure, they think of roads, transit, utilities, or energy systems, broadband, the physical foundations of our communities. But infrastructure is so much more. It’s also about what attracts talent, what draws visitors in, and keeps them spending in our communities. And you all remember what traditional tourism used to be, right? It was about sightseeing. You remember those Travel Ontario, those tourism centres that we used to go to? I remember road trips, when I was growing up, my dad would pull out the big map with the highlighted route of all the highways we’re gonna go through. And, of course, Pearly’s. Yeah, you laugh, you know what Pearly’s is, three-quarters of my office has no idea what Pearly’s means. But certainly, the face of travel has changed. People travel now for experiences. They travel for concerts, food, festivals, sporting events, cultural destinations, and for that feeling of being part of something exciting and memorable. In other words, they don’t just wanna see Toronto anymore, they wanna experience it.
Now, culture is what gives Toronto that edge. Culture and arts are what connect us, reflect who we are, and project Ontario’s creativity far beyond our borders. Just look to the global success of film and television shows like The Handmaid’s Tale, Frankenstein, Heated Rivalry, or Shoresy. Video games like Assassin’s Creed, Halo, Cuphead. These prove that there’s an enormous appetite for Ontario-made stories in an increasingly crowded global marketplace. Because when people connect with our culture, they connect with our province, and that’s what drives tourism. It drives investments, and it creates jobs.
Now, Ontario is Canada’s largest tourism economy. It welcomes 133 million visitors annually, and generates $34 billion in visitor spending. And that means we attract more than 40% of international visitors to Canada, supporting over 300,000 jobs and 100,000 businesses across the province. And as you heard Wayne say, Toronto alone welcomes 28 million visitors annually, generating more than $9 billion in economic activity, supporting those local hotels, restaurants, live music, sports, neighbourhood festivals, cultural attractions, local small businesses, and so much more across the city. Our culture sector, it’s a big economic driver. It contributes $28 billion to Ontario’s GDP, supports nearly 270,000 good jobs. And that’s why we take it very seriously, and continue to make historic investments in culture and tourism industry.
In the last budget, we just announced an additional $21 million per year in operating funding for two of Ontario’s, actually Canada’s, most iconic cultural institutions, the Art Gallery of Ontario, and the Royal Ontario Museum. We also announced a $35 million investment over two years for the AGO’s Dani Reiss Modern and Contemporary Gallery expansion. This is going to increase gallery space by 30%, and support the next chapter of growth. This of course is on top of recent investments of similar magnitude in the McMichael Gallery, and the Shaw, where we’re rebuilding the Royal George Theatre.
But this is more than just building buildings. It’s about building destinations. And that’s the approach that’s guiding our transformation of Ontario Place. This is going to be a modern year-round destination built around live experiences, recreation, entertainment, and culture. It is a revitalization that is a once-in-a-generational cultural infrastructure investment. It’ll feature 50 acres of year-round publicly accessible waterfront space, trails, beaches, family attractions, along with an upgraded live music and performance venue that will strengthen Toronto’s ability to attract major international tours and events. It’ll become the home to the new Science Centre, supported by more than a billion dollars in provincial funding to build a modern, immersive, and fully accessible science destination for future generations to learn inside and out.
And most importantly, these experiences will be connected through transit infrastructure, as well. The Ontario Line will directly connect Ontario Place to Toronto’s revitalized waterfront, moving millions of residents and visitors to concerts, attractions, festivals, and live events more efficiently. Projects like the Ontario Northlander will also help move communities to Ontario’s growing experience economy, making it easier for people to access the province, to major destinations and events, because world-class experiences require world-class connectivity. Also on Toronto’s waterfront, we’re investing $2.2 million in the Corleck, a new Irish-Canadian cultural destination celebrating heritage, immigration, and community, while bringing new life to an underused historic building.
Now, these projects are bold by design, and I think to, you know, there was somebody in the ’60s who had a crazy idea to build the world’s tallest freestanding structure at the base of Lake Ontario, and some crazy guy had the idea in the ’80s to build a retractable domed roof stadium downtown. These types of projects require ambition, and it reflects our government’s focus on growing what works, being bold, having the vision to think ahead to the future, capitalizing on what makes Ontario unique, and making sure that Toronto remains globally competitive as a destination for culture, tourism, and live experience. And I believe that that is the power of the experience economy, that culture creates the reasons that people travel, that tourism brings economic activities, and of course, that infrastructure is what connects it all.
Now, none of this happens without strong partnerships. That means that cultural institutions, municipalities, and organizations like the ones in the room, you will all play a critical role in this vision, in shaping the future of Ontario’s tourism and our economy. I just got back from a film and television mission in LA—by the way, you know, these lights are my Achilles heel. I just always make me sweat under them. It’s not Premier’s office here that’s making me nervous, it’s the damn lights. But, you know, it was interesting to be in LA, and the thing that kept coming up amongst all the film and television companies that we were speaking to, it wasn’t the compliment I was fishing for, but it was a compliment we kept getting is how diverse our talent pool is here. And we’re very blessed to actually have that.
You know, we’ve got—think of another place where you can get the best Korean barbecue next to the best butter chicken, next to the best Afghan kebab, Turkish delights, whatever. It’s a long list. I recently answered a question about that in question period, and my colleagues around me were chirping me, saying, “What about Italian? What about jerk chicken?” You know, it speaks to the diversity of a province amidst some geopolitical instabilities where maybe we take that for granted sometimes, because we’re really lucky to have it.
You know, I stand here humbled talking to you as the proud son of immigrants. My dad moved here 50 years ago from South Korea with nothing. And, you know, I know my mom’s watching right now, like to think that one day her son would be speaking in front of you at the Empire Club is a truly humbling moment. But that’s the story of our country, isn’t it, right? You can come here from anywhere in the globe, and celebrate your culture and be proud of who you are. We have a lot to show off in this province, and it’s beyond the fact that we fit 14 European countries, have two time zones, contain 20% of the world’s fresh water. The best of the best come here, and they get to be who they are. And I, for one, have never been prouder to be Canadian.
So, for about 90% of that speech, you saw some very stunned faces around the room. It was my staff, because I had read everything verbatim until that very last part—2,903 days, it is the first time I stuck to the script on anything. But I felt it necessary to go off-script at the end. It’s a special moment, as I said. Thank you so much for having me at the Empire Club, and I promise when we answer these questions in the fireside chat, Laura, I will be totally unscripted. Thank you very much.
Saurabh Popat
Thank you, Minister Cho and Wayne. You’ve really highlighted how critical live cultural experiences are part of our economic resilience, and our identity. We appreciate the clarity you bring to the challenges of building a world-class city. This brings us to the conversation portion of our program. Laura deCarufel is the Director of Culture and Lifestyle at the Toronto Star, and the Editor-in-Chief of the Kit. She is an award-winning editor who oversees arts, food, and style for our country’s largest daily newspaper. Her experience reporting on our city’s cultural life makes her the ideal moderator for this discussion. She’s joined by Kristy Fletcher. Kristy is the Chief Operating Officer of the Canadian Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, and the President of Music Counts. She led community impact and services strategies for Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment for more than 20 years. Christi joins us here today to share her perspective on how music and culture drive our communities forward. Laura, I invite you, and Kristy, and Wayne to the stage. Thank you.
Laura deCarufel, Director of Culture & Lifestyle, The Toronto Star; Editor-in-Chief, The Kit
Great. Thank you so much for that kind introduction. I’m so thrilled to be here with this esteemed panel to talk about how Toronto moves into the next decade of live experiences. We’ve heard a lot at the beginning of this conversation about how Toronto really is a world-class city and a creative hub. We know that 28 million people came here last year from all over the globe to enjoy our sporting events, to enjoy concerts, to enjoy our festivals. We know that the World Cup, for example, is coming in the next few weeks. It’s all a very exciting time to be in Toronto. But the big question is, are we set up to succeed? So, we’re gonna get into it. And Wayne, the first question is for you. So, we’re gonna talk about Roger Stadium. So, Live Nation’s Roger Stadium was born out of a gap in permanent infrastructure. In a city where permanent builds take decades, can we sustain a world-class reputation on temporary creative solutions, or are we just renting our status as a world-class city?
Wayne Zronik
Renting status. Loaded question. I think we’ve always had, we are a world-class destination, right? So, I think that we’ve always punched above our weight when it comes to fans, people wanting to go to shows, and going to sporting events. You know, you look at the record number of shows that are happening. These are artists coming here. You look at the sports landscape, and all these new teams, and there’s so many opportunities to go. So, it’s there, that we are that. But we lack some things, for sure. You know, I think a permanent stadium is probably one of them. Roger’s Stadium was born out of the necessity, given where the touring business is gone, and not having a place to put these shows, and then having Toronto that might otherwise miss these shows. And so, Eric over there said, “Why don’t we build something?” And I said, “You’re crazy.” But we came up with a roadmap that worked. You know, and Natalie and the whole team at Live Nation were able to pull it together relatively quickly. And it’s a great experience, but it’s sort of a festival meets the best of stadium.
But you know, we, Destination Toronto did a destination master plan and they, you know, well, we think there’s a lot of venues in the city; we actually have a lower number of seats for entertainment and professional sports, because we lack that, that call it national-sized stadium, 70, 80,000 capacity. And so, we don’t, we’re not there when it comes to that. So, I think that was identified as deficiency in that. And I think it’s something that we’d like to see longer term, but we also don’t want fans to miss these shows. And so, that’s how we ended up where we were with Roger Stadium.
Laura deCarufel
Thank you. Kristy, let’s talk about national identity. This is something that I think feels very timely, in terms of the blustering rhetoric south of the border. There’ve been streaming platform juggernauts, huge US artists, and international artists coming to Toronto. Would you agree with the statement that Canadian identity is at a crossroads? And if so, how do we protect our national identity, and grow our artists in this scenario?
Kristy Fletcher, Chief Operating Officer, The Canadian Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences
Yeah, I think framing it as needing to compete with global juggernauts, and other artists who are global juggernauts is, that’s tricky, because we’re never going to be in a position to shut out global influence in music. I mean, music crosses every border. But what I think we do need to do is elevate Canadian voices and provide the platform and the structure and the support, so they can stand alongside those global artists and maintain Canadian identity. And at CARAS, that is what we do. We support the artist along the pipeline of their career. So, we start with music education, where we support music education nationally through Music Counts. We’ve allocated over $20 million in musical instruments and resources. And then the Juno Awards provides a global platform for artists to gain recognition, and it provides the stage. And then we have the Music Hall of Fame, and that’s where we honour our artists, and really celebrate legacy artists.
So, I think maintaining national identity, these are all elements that are important to doing that. And I guess I’ll just say lastly—and I think Minister Cho touched on this a little bit, through identity and the Canadian pride that so many of us are feeling lately, and the Junos was such a perfect example of that. We welcomed these legacy artists onto the stage. Joni Mitchell, we had Rush opening up their first show with their new drummer, and first time they performed in over a decade. We had Daniel Caesar on the stage. These are international artists, and they wanted to come back to Canada. They wanted to come back to Ontario to celebrate, because they also share in that national pride. So, I think it’s so important to provide that stage, to make sure we’re supporting our local artists, and supporting arts within our community to make sure we’re providing that stage for them to come back and celebrate.
Laura deCarufel
Thank you. Minister Cho, just following on from that, the idea of supporting our artists, making sure that they have a stage here, we’re also celebrating the fact that we have these amazing economic wins from concerts like Oasis, or Taylor Swift. How do we balance that with the support for artists, so that we are kind of generating the kind of, creating the kind of environment where we’re able to create the next Junos headliner?
The Hon. Stan Cho
Yeah, it’s a great question. And let’s start with the rhetoric down south. You talked about it, that’s what it is. It’s rhetoric, it’s noise. And of course, the benefit of that noise has been, it’s reminded us how proud we should be to be Canadian. Canadian flags have been sold out two years in a row. You know, California wine sales have fallen off cliff. I’m okay with that, right? It’s really given us a showcase or a platform for our local product, and really made us appreciate what we have in our own backyard. And we see that in our tourism numbers. But of course, you know, we know that Americans will be our friends, and that when there’s a new administration, they’ll still be our friends. It will outlast politics. And so, these international names that come in, look, it’s big money from Taylor Swift and Oasis, right? The fans who go there are dining at local restaurants. They’re staying at local hotels. They’re buying souvenirs from local businesses. And they’re spending big money. I mean, Taylor Swift’s economic impact was into the hundreds of millions of dollars. I accounted for 2.7% of that, when I went to a show myself. But it’s an important economic driver in our city.
Now, of course, we need to be proud of our local talent, because we have a ton of it. And I think when you look at that Canadian sovereignty when it comes to the performer, it’s about that performer being able to learn here, to be on a stage here, to have a Canadian audience here, without having to leave the country for being successful. And so, you know, Wayne deserves a lot of credit for building the places that they’ll perform. And Kristy deserves a lot of credit for being the one to connect, you know, that performer to that stage, right? Government is that connective tissue from the school to the stadium. We need to make sure that we support that pipeline of talent. There’s some kid with an instrument maybe in his or her hands in Grade Six that’s going to become the next Shawn Mendes, or Drake, or Céline Dion, or Shania Twain, Justin Bieber. It’s such a long list, incredible global talent we have. We need to be proud of that. Now, we’re not, government is not going to be the ones on stage performing, but we need to create the conditions for that.
Wayne Zronik
Maybe, though….
The Hon. Stan Cho
No, not me, trust me. She heard me saying that….
Laura deCarufel
That’s the next act. Yeah.
The Hon. Stan Cho
That’s not me. I wasn’t, it’s, you know, talent isn’t genetic. K-pop might be famous, but that’s not, it’s not over here, okay? So, our job is to simply clear the runway, and get the hell out of the way, so people can succeed.
Laura deCarufel
Kristy and Wayne, just following on from what Minister Cho said. I’m wondering if you have any sense of the tenor changing, like that you don’t necessarily have to go south of the border in order to be successful, and to be accepted back into Toronto. Do you feel like that’s shifting at all? Do you see any progress on that? Or does that still seem like a bit of a hurdle that we need to overcome?
Wayne Zronik
I think we should be proud of our cultural exports, right? I think music more than ever is a global game. How artist discovery works now, through social media. You’re not, you know, it’s not local radio where you’re hearing your artists anymore. So you can, you can go from making YouTube videos in your bedroom to an arena faster than ever. And that can happen for Canadian kids, and it can happen for American kids. It can happen for somebody from São Paulo, you know, in Brazil, it’s, the music industry is increasingly a global one. And what the minister said, I think it’s important to have the infrastructure for people to become artists, you know, to have stages for them to play, for them to develop when they’re young, you know, to have rooms like, you know, whether it’s the Drake Underground, or something, or, you know, and so they can, they can develop and develop here.
And it’s okay if they get so big that they’re, you know, they’re playing, you know, Staples Center in LA, or Crypto, whatever it’s called now. But you know, that’s a good thing, you know? But we love, like the homegrown, huge supporter of Canadian artists, and we have artists that are successful here, as well. You know, you look at things like, artists like The Beaches, or the Arkells, playing stadiums. So, not only is it good to support it culturally because it’s an important thing for us, it’s also good commercially because, you know, that sort of grows up, and is business, as well. So, I think that it’s really creating the conditions for artists to thrive is what’s important for us.
Kristy Fletcher
Yeah, I totally agree. And I would just add some of the artists, they will cross the border. That is, you know, they will, that’s where they’re generating the majority of their revenue. It makes business sense for them to do that. But they, we also need to make sure we’re providing the opportunities for them to come back. And I’ll just give an example of a country music artist, Cameron Whitcomb, and he’s seen some success in the US. He’s on a, you know, sold out tour right now. And we wanted to have him perform on the Juno stage. And it was almost impossible with his touring schedule. And, but he was adamant. He said, “I need to be there for this.” So, we rerouted his travel. We brought him back in a prop plane overnight. He walked on to rehearse, stayed for the show, and then flew back. But that goes to show the pride. That was the Canadian pride. So, you can achieve success in other areas of the globe—and of course, we want our artists to achieve successes. But we want to make sure we are creating the right environment for them to come back, and providing the stage and the platform. And I think that’s something that everyone on this stage is fully committed to doing.
Laura deCarufel
Thank you. Wayne, one more for you, talking about venues. So, you referenced the Drake Underground as a place where young artists are able to perform, and achieve a little bit of experience, get into the habit. Would you agree that there is a bit of a problem with venue space in Toronto? And I’m wondering if you can talk about the middle. So, we have some of our stadiums, including Rogers Stadium, which we’ve talked about. We have some of our tiny bars. What about the middle? Do we need to grow the middle? And if so, how do we do that, balancing real estate pressures with the cultural necessity?
Wayne Zronik
I think, I think we have been growing the middle. You know, I think you look at where we were. There was a period in time when everything seemed to be turning into a condo, you know, and we lost some iconic rooms as a result of that, you know. Now, no one’s building condos anymore, so we’re not talking about it. That’s another problem. But the, when you look at what we’ve done, like the renovated Massey Hall, for instance, it’s beautiful. That investment is incredible. And so that, you know, we built History, you know, and so these are filling voids. For sure, there’s been a, you know, the El Mocambo, that was a huge investment to bring that thing back to life. And so, there have been significant investments made in that middle space. So, I think it’s about filling them. You know what I mean? I think fan behaviour’s changing a little bit. People drink less. And so, it’s like, what is the economy of these live events look like? But I think that the investments are being made. Sure, there can always be more, you know. Could we, do we need a, where’s our Radio City Music Hall? Where’s our 5,000-seater, you know what I mean? There’s a few gaps in Toronto. But I think that when you look at the investments that are being made, they’re in the hundreds of millions of dollars into the space. And I think that speaks to the strength of the sector overall as it’s grown, and people’s commitment to Toronto.
Laura deCarufel
Minister Cho, you’ve talked about, speaking of commitment to Toronto, the waterfront. And you were referencing that a little bit earlier in your opening remarks about your vision for that, and what you would like to see that, how it turned into a kind of living cultural hub. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, what you’re personally or most excited about with the revamped Ontario Place, and some of the other exciting things on the horizon?
The Hon. Stan Cho
Yeah, thanks Laura. A few things excite me as much as thinking about Toronto’s waterfront. This is the most iconic waterfront in the country, and I think we can all agree it’s not where it could be, and it hasn’t been, well, for decades. You know, what we have embarked on already is the most transformational cultural infrastructure investment in a generation. And there will be a day when we look back on this moment 10 years from now and think, you remember what this used to look like? It’s extremely exciting. What we’re doing is we’re not building just buildings and structures, right? People won’t remember that. What we are building is a story that makes sense. So, think of the young couple who comes down to watch a show at the RBC Amphitheatre, or decides that—the senior couple who decides that they wanna have a picnic in the 50 acres of green space at Ontario Place, or the individual who wants to take a walk around the entire public realm of the beaches around Ontario Place from sunrise to sunset, the most stunning views of Lake Ontario, or go across the street, one of four professional sports teams, maybe at the Coliseum, taking in the Toronto Temple game. This is about filling that story, right? It’s about making sure that people have that experience, six million visitors going there with options for transit to get there.
You know, it’s interesting I mentioned LA. This really floored me. Out of all the meetings I had while we were there, three separate companies, unprovoked, mentioned how bad traffic is in Toronto. That’s LA, man. We’re talking about them saying our traffic’s bad. That means there’s a lot more to be done. We are also, as part of that plan and that vision for that story to make sense embarking upon, well, the largest transit expansion plan in North American history, $70 billion to not just build the Ontario Line, but to build the Yonge North line to the 905, to extend the Sheppard, the subway extension, out east to extend Eglinton West, to build that spider web of transit that people need for that journey to make sense. People won’t go if they can’t get there. That’s also part of that vision.
And as I said, it boils down to this, Laura. You know, people won’t remember us. They won’t remember Toronto for the buildings or structures we built. They will remember us for the experiences in those buildings and around those buildings. And that’s what we intend to do.
Laura deCarufel
Thank you. I think referencing traffic and transit is so crucial and so important because we know, like I was at the Toronto Tempo game last week, and that was an experience getting out of there. Completely worth it and absolutely amazing, they won. But just wondering if the investment in the Ontario Line, all of the very big ambitious plans, so important. Just wondering, you know, Rogers Stadium also had some challenges with people getting there, getting back. What do you see as maybe some of their, are there any interim solutions that we can be looking at to help sort of aid the snarl of traffic and transit in the city, to encourage people to get out and go, as you said. Question for the panel, if anyone has any.
Wayne Zronik
Well, I think the transit expansion’s key. Obviously, we’ve had the GO Train to the front door of RBC Amphitheatre for a long time. Having a subway line that gets people there is key. You saw how congested the GO platform was, when…
Laura deCarufel
Yep.
Wayne Zronik
…everyone was leaving the Tempo game. And I think a subway and having the GO there are very different, that moves people much faster. And I think we’ve learned it at Rogers Stadium. You know, if you, you have to structure processes around the transit that you have available. Like in Europe, in European stadiums, they’re often serviced by one subway stop. And so, Europeans are used to crowd management, and being pulsed onto subways, because that’s the safe way to do it, and it’s a way to get 50,000 people out of a site in 20 minutes or half an hour. We probably didn’t do a good enough job educating people on what was gonna happen when they left Rogers Stadium the first time. And so, we took a little heat for that. But, you know, by the third or fourth show, people understood what was happening. We understood the need to educate people to do that. And so, do we wanna have to do that? No. But does that happen elsewhere, because you don’t have the transit infrastructure? Yes.
And so, you know, we put a 50,000 capacity stadium in a place that specifically had three subway stations that could service it, so we could disperse the crowd and it could be manageable. And so, we have to, you either build things where transit is or you take transit to where things are, you know. But it takes time. But like, that interim solution I talked about. I also think that Ontario Place, we’re super excited about it. We’ve been alone down there for a long time. We’ve had no neighbours, you know, just sort of rotting parks on either side of us, you know. And so, it hasn’t like—we’re super excited for what’s happening down there. But we’ve also said we have the precinct level view. Because at any given point in time, you can have a full house at BMO Field, RBC Amphitheatre, the stadium and the arena, and we have to look at not only the individual events but the collection of events, and have a much better sort of planning apparatus to deal with those things.
Laura deCarufel
That’s interesting. The sense of kind of coming up above it, and thinking of it as a whole city and a whole experience.
The Hon. Stan Cho
Absolutely. And you know, I think to tie in what Wayne is saying, your transit can’t just be Toronto-centric, right? I mean, it’s a big network we’re building. Whether we’re increasing GO service into Bowmanville, to Niagara Region. But people need to wanna ride it, too. It has to be affordable. So I mean, things like the One Fare Program we introduced in 2024, that saved transit riders $240 million. And basically, what that means is if you’re part of a GTHA Transit Network, and you’re taking a GO train, and you can connect to the TTC and then pay one fare. I mean, that’s a game changer, when it comes to the cost of taking transit. We need to expand our reach of transit options across the GTHA. You know, the Greater Golden Horseshoe is like 0.63% of the country’s land mass, but it contains 26% of Canada’s population. It’s a very concentrated number, and we’re growing. And so, when we look at those transit available, yeah, you gotta build the spider web and the network, but you also have to make people wanna take it. Things like credit and debit tap that we introduced, to make it more convenient for people to take. Simple things like wifi on the subway. You know, the experience matters, as well. And so, Kristy will make sure that the talent’s on stage performing. Wayne will make sure that these places are built. And we’ll make sure that people can get there.
Laura deCarufel
Great. I think your point about accessibility is also really important. So, thank you for bringing that up. I wanted to talk to you all about the idea of the vibe, and the sort of Toronto having a vibe. So, we often think about infrastructure, as you referenced in your remarks, Mr. Cho, of transit, and traffic, and sewers, that this is just something that has to be completely nailed down. But culture is sometimes seen as a bit of a nice-to-have amenity. So I’m just wondering from each of the group, and maybe starting with you, Kristy, who do you think is responsible for the kind of intangible value of a city’s vibe, and also, who should pay for it?
Kristy Fletcher
I think we’re all responsible, I think, in short. Whether it’s the ticket purchaser who is attending the show and brings their own vibe, the sort of that social infrastructure, or whether it’s the companies that come in to support through sponsorship, and help create what that vibe looks like. And then, obviously, funding coming from all levels of government helps, as well, depending on what we’re talking about. So, if we look at something again, like the Juno Awards that exist because we have support from all levels of government, but we very much require on having fans coming to the venue, supporting local talent, supporting what it means to be Canadian, and the pride that is just a result of these national award shows. So, I would say we’re all responsible for the vibe, but I would encourage people to get out there, support your local arts, and take the new transit that will be coming soon, and—because we all are responsible for it. And then that ties into what we’ve been talking about, sort of that national pride piece.
Laura deCarufel
Wayne, what about you?
Wayne Zronik
I just want to know what Minister Cho’s vibe budget is. We can start tapping that for some of our initiatives. No, I think it’s…
Laura deCarufel
Breaking news.
Wayne Zronik
…I think it’s, it is everybody, I totally agree with Kristy, it’s everybody’s responsibility. But it starts, like for me, it starts like with the entrepreneurs and the artists at the ground level, and the people that go out and take risks, and put on events, or open a room or a great new restaurant, or put on a little street festival. I think it’s those people that go out, because that to me is sort of key, it starts there. You can’t, it’s not, I don’t think vibe is top down, I think vibe is bottom up, you know. And I think it develops organically, and I think it’s incredibly important to make a city livable, you know, for having people that want to live downtown. But yeah, so I think it starts at the grassroots. Yeah.
Laura deCarufel
Would you agree with that?
The Hon. Stan Cho
Yeah. I’d say no. Fully the Prime Minister, it’s his responsibility, you know? We need more money. No, it is certainly a collective responsibility. You know, Toronto oozes cool, the vibe is cool, right? I mean, I mentioned the diversity of the city, but we have these pockets of areas you can walk through after a concert, and go on a patio, and as much as this winter was a tough one, like there are people around the world who never get cool weather. Let’s lean into that, let’s lean into some of those strengths. We ooze cool. We just need to make sure that people can see that cool, get around, and see and understand that. Basically, what I’m saying is, we need to create the conditions for the brilliant people of the city of this province to just flourish, and to succeed. You know, the culture industries are no longer nice to have. They are the economic engine of a modern city.
We are a global city, and I think that the recent geopolitical instabilities has made us really appreciate that, and people want to see what we have to offer. We’re the fourth-largest city in North America. We are growing, we are bursting at the seams, and as I said, we are the perfect microcosm for the world. Not a lot of people around this globe get to, they don’t have what we have. And every time I come home, I’m glad to be home no matter where we were, because I’m really proud of where I’m from, and I think sky’s the limit on where we can grow. Our job as policymakers, let’s create the conditions for success, and get the hell out of the way.
Laura deCarufel
Love that. Okay, last question, let’s do a rapid fire, and Wayne, we’ll start with you.
Wayne Zronik
Oh boy.
Laura deCarufel
What is one specific barrier each of you would kill tomorrow to make Toronto a cultural superpower, even more than it is?
Wayne Zronik
Okay. Two quick things. I think first, it would be to make it easier to facilitate events in the city. You know, if you wanna have a street festival, I think you have to talk to seven departments, and you have to pay a lot of fees. And so, if you’re young, and you’re trying to put something together, that can be a real barrier to entry. So, how do we make that easier? You know, it changes how we structure that. And then two, I think the funding of these large scale infrastructure projects related to culture and entertainment have traditionally been the third rail of politics. So, it’s like, if I were to say, I support the development of a national stadium that’s 80,000, that’s not gonna get done without the help of multiple levels of government, and appreciating the value of that, and what that would bring. Those would be two things I think that could turbocharge.
Kristy Fletcher
I would say maybe not so much a barrier, but first of all, a further support of music education is something that I think will benefit the culture as infrastructure, the vibe, everything we’ve talked about today, it all starts at a grassroots level. And I think the stronger we can work, again, all levels of government but also corporations, whether it’s parents in schools, anything we can do to support that at that grassroots level is going to pay dividends, as these young artists start to move through their careers. And it’s not just about standing on a stage and performing, it’s, there’s two sides to the stage. There’s all of the career opportunities that exist behind the stage. So, I think anything we can do to eliminate barriers, to help with that will go a long way.
The Hon. Stan Cho
Ban Yankee’s hats in the province of Ontario.
Laura deCarufel
Full support.
The Hon. Stan Cho
No, it’s one that we work on all the time is have industry, have things move at the pace of culture, at the pace of business, not at the pace of government. And that’s the challenge that Premier sets upon us every single day. There’s a standalone Ministry of Red Tape that was sole purpose was to get rid of red tape. It’s eliminated the cost of doing business by $12 billion a year. We need to do that at every level of government, and we need to continue to be leaner and meaner, you know, bring the language of business to the business of government. I’d like to see that done immediately.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
Laura deCarufel
I love that, thank you. I have one question from the audience. So can Wayne, Stan, or Kristy talk about how policies like ticket resale regulation are an important part of culture as infrastructure, so young musicians can afford to see shows and learn? This is a question from Explain.
Wayne Zronik
I’m happy to take it.
Laura deCarufel
Yeah, you can take it.
Wayne Zronik
Everyone’s looking at me, anyway. No, I think, look at, I think that, you know, there’s high demand shows, there’s expensive tickets, there are. But you know, the vast majority of tickets are affordable. Building something like Roger’s Stadium expands the capacity, so that you can have multiple price points, or the lawn at the amphitheatre. We’ve sold over $150,000, $30 tickets for the summer season this year. So, there are, there is affordable music out there. I think that, I think the resale laws ultimately, you know, take that arbitrage opportunity out of the market, and we really, that’ll get tickets into the hands of real fans, as opposed to ticket resellers who buy them up only to make a profit. So, anything that puts tickets into the hands of real fans instead of resellers, we’re totally supportive of.
Laura deCarufel
Excellent. Thank you, Wayne. And thank you all so much for, I’m sorry, for joining us today for this part of the program. Thank you.
Saurabh Popat
Thank you so much, the incredible conversation panellists. Laura, Kristy, Wayne, and Minister, thank you so much for your leadership, and your insights, and your contributions. And particularly, how culture drives both community and commerce, and how it creates our city’s heart. We need this kind of clarity, as we design the connective tissue of our modern cities. Please join me again, in thanking our speakers and our moderator.
Now, before we conclude, I’d like to invite the CEO of the Empire Club to offer a few words of appreciation. So, please join me in welcoming Kent Emerson to the podium.
Note of Appreciation by Kent Emerson, Chief Executive Officer, Empire Club of Canada
On behalf of the Empire Club, I’d like to thank the panel for the insights shared during today’s fireside chat. Your candid perspectives help us better understand what it will take to grow Toronto’s experience economy, and strengthen the culture and infrastructure that supports it. The Empire Club, we’re gonna do something special today. We’re gonna honour a Canadian legend and cultural icon on the 100th anniversary of his birth. And we’re going to join institutions such as the National Music Centre in Calgary, the Royal Canadian Mint, Kerner Hall, and Lincoln Centre in recognizing this Canadian legend. Oscar Peterson was a Canadian jazz pianist and composer widely regarded as one of the greatest jazz pianists of our time, called the Maharaja of the Keyboard by fellow jazz legend, Duke Ellington. Peterson recorded on more than 500 albums, and won 8 Grammy Awards, and of course, he obviously won many Juno Awards, including a Lifetime Achievement Award.
At the head table today, we have Kelly Peterson, trustee of the estate of Oscar Peterson. Kelly knows that back in the day, I knew Oscar as a jazz pianist, when I was a student at York University in the ’90s. Like all of the jazz students, I participated in small group jazz instruction. Every few weeks, we’d receive a special guest. And we never knew who this guest was. It was called Mr. Various. And so, every couple of weeks, you’d get the surprise guest that could be a musician from downtown. You never knew who it would be. One day, I had my back to the room, and I turned around and Oscar Peterson was behind me. It was an equally awe-inspiring and shocking moment. So, the first words I ever spoke to Oscar were, “Oh my God, are you Mr. Various?” And he’s unimpressed. He said, “No, I’m Oscar.” And it’s no consolation that the group lesson went even less well than my original introduction to Oscar. Oscar was an incredibly passionate about teaching, and preached putting every ounce of your being into the music, something I carried into the music, and all aspects of my life. Awhile later, Oscar gave me the Oscar Peterson Award for jazz piano. Through the years, he looked out for me. And we kept in touch through York University’s director of the jazz program, when I was studying in New York at the Manhattan School of Music. As part of an orchestra, I had the privilege of opening for him in the Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles in 1998. He pulled me into his dressing room to check up on me. I didn’t realize that he kept Clint Eastwood waiting outside, until our conversation was through.
So, Oscar did much more than play us great piano. He invested in humans. He invested, I think the point of the story is he did a lot for people beyond. On a day when we recognize both the tangible and intangible contributions of culture, and those who are its arbiters and creators, the Empire Club recognizes Oscar Peterson’s 100th for his influence not only on Canadian music, but on artists all over the globe. Oscar never spoke at the Empire Club, but he should have. He should have had the opportunity. This podium has recognized many great Canadians, but in Oscar’s case, we missed a very important one. Oscar was not only a great piano player, but an intellectual with a deep passion for his country, Canada. Oscar often spoke about his experience in racism, and his work to overcome them. He should have had the opportunity to give his voice to his story here.
Today, in honour of him, we will end the program with Oscar’s Hymn to Freedom, a song that was adopted by the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960’s. It has meant so many to those who face division and adversity with everything that is happening now. We need a bit more of this song in 2026. Please welcome Joanna Majoko and Jeremy Hutzel for a special performance.
[Musical Performance by Joanna Majoko and Jeremy Hutzel]]
Concluding Remarks by Saurabh Popat
Wow, that is a super hard act to follow and no, I’m not going to sing us out. Thank you again to the performers. Thank you again to our panellists, sponsors, and of course to all of you for joining us here today. I’d also like to take a moment to recognize the students and young leaders joining us today. Their presence is made possible through the charitable arm, the Empire Club Foundation, and the generosity of our donors. This support enables us to invite future leaders, perhaps future musicians, to take part in today’s dialogue, and to empower them to turn knowledge into leadership that shines in communities, boardrooms, and national conversations shaping Canada’s future.
To stay connected, please subscribe to our newsletter by scanning the QR code on your tables. I also hope that you’ll join us for two exciting upcoming events. On Thursday this week, May 21st, we examined the business and resilience of sport in our country. Golf Canada CEO, Lawrence Applebaum, Minister Neil Lumsden, and Jacqueline Ryan will share how strategic innovation drives growth and accessibility. Christine Simpson moderates this discussion on building sustainable models for athletes and our communities.
And then on Friday, May 29th, we host the official public launch of the Council of Ontario University’s AI Task Force Report. Vivek Goel, Shannon Bell, and Glenda Crisp will discuss how our province can move quickly to lead the global AI economy. This event takes place during Toronto Tech Week, and explores the infrastructure and talent required to drive our future productivity. Tickets for both events are on sale now.
Finally, we’re incredibly excited to announce the inaugural Empire Club Golf Tournament on June the 2nd at the legendary Glen Abbey Golf Club. Join us for a fantastic day on the course with TSN’s Bob Weeks, where all net proceeds would support the Empire Club Foundation, and empower our next generation of leaders.
As always, and as a club of record, all Empire Club events are available to watch and to listen to on our website. The recording of today’s event will be available very shortly. Thank you all for being a part of this incredibly powerful and important conversation. Enjoy the networking reception and we look forward to seeing you at future events. This meeting is now adjourned. Thank you.
