May 6, 2026
The Empire Club of Canada Presents
Canada Strong for All: United in Time of Uncertainty — Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Chairman: Saurabh Popat, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Moderator
David Herle, Co-founder, Air Quotes Media; Host, Curse of Politics & The Herle Burly podcasts; Partner, Rubicon Strategy
Distinguished Guest Speaker
The Honourable François‑Philippe Champagne, Canada’s Minister of Finance and National Revenue
Head Table Guests
Harry Taylor, Executive Vice President, Chief Financial & Regulatory Officer, Hydro One
Dan Nowlan, Vice Chairman & Managing Director, Equity Capital Markets, Corporate & Investment Banking, National Bank of Canada
Welcome Address by Saurabh Popat, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Thank you, everyone. Good afternoon. If you can please take your seats. Thank you so much. My name is Saurabh Popat. I’m the chair of the board here at the Empire Club of Canada, and your host for today’s event.
To formally begin, I would like to acknowledge that we are gathering on the traditional and the treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat Peoples. I encourage you all to learn more about the Traditional Territory on which you work and live.
Now, today’s event would not be possible without the generous support of our incredible sponsors. The Empire Club is a non-profit organization, and our sponsors generously support the club, and make these events possible and complimentary for our online viewers to attend. So, please join me in thanking our Lead Sponsors, Bruce Power, Hydro One, and National Bank Capital Markets. Thank you. Thank you, merci beaucoup, to our VIP Reception Sponsors, Algoma Steel, the Insurance Bureau of Canada, and Interact. Thank you. And we also deeply appreciate the ongoing support of our Lead Season Sponsors, Bruce Power, Hydro One, and National Bank Capital Markets, and our VIP Reception Season Sponsors, Ellis Don, McKinsey & Company, the Ontario Road Builders Association, and Waste Connections of Canada. Thank you all. And finally, thank you to our Media Partner, the Toronto Star, and our AV Partner, Bespoke Audio Visual.
If you have a question for our speakers, please scan the QR code found on your program, or through the Q&A function, if you’re online. And for those online, if you require technical assistance, please use the chat feature.
Welcome today to a crucial conversation about our country’s economic strength. As we’ve all seen, heard, and felt, Canada is dealing with real global volatility in a dynamic trade and geopolitical environment that feels uncertain, and many times, uncomfortable. Guiding our country through this requires clear fiscal leadership, and smart, deliberate choices. One week ago, the Government of Canada delivered its Spring Economic Statement, with an update and measures focused on building a Canada strong for all. Our Finance Minister reminded us in his remarks that Canada is resilient, and Canadians are resourceful people. He outlined strategic investments in more skilled trades, more homes, and advancing major projects at speed and scale. And Canadians want to understand what these priorities mean for their families and their businesses.
So, this event continues a vital dialogue that we’ve convened here at the Empire Club of Canada all season long. In fact, earlier this spring, we heard from the Bank of Canada, Governor Tiff Macklem, about the forces reshaping our economy. We also recently hosted Ontario’s finance minister prior to the provincial budget to discuss the province’s financial path forward through these uncertain times. And just last week, Federal Energy and Natural Resources Minister, Tim Hodgson, reminded us that building our nation requires us to act with confidence through the headwinds of global change. Throughout these discussions, one theme remains constant, that we must focus on strengthening Canada against external pressures, a challenge that our nation has risen to many times before.
Now in 2011, right here at the Empire Club, Prime Minister Carney, Mark Carney, who was then the Governor of the Bank of Canada at the time, said that it’s better to rebalance from a position of strength, and build our competitiveness and prosperity worthy of our nation. And that seems to reflect his government’s thinking today, and so very important for all of us. So, we are very pleased to welcome the Honourable François-Phillipe Champagne, Canada’s Minister of Finance and National Revenue here today. The minister will outline the government’s fiscal direction and reflect on the economic path ahead for our country. We know the decisions that we make together now will shape our prosperity tomorrow and the years ahead. This is a conversation about how we can build a strong and united economy in a more resilient Canada.
Before we begin, I want to recognize one of our lead Season Sponsors. Bruce Power plays a critical role in building Ontario’s clean energy future. They understand the importance of long-term planning and economic resilience. Please turn your attention to the screens for a short message from Bruce Power.
[Video is shown]
Saurabh Popat
Thank you to Bruce Power for their continued support. Now, I’d like to thank another Lead Season Sponsor. Today we welcome Harry Taylor, the Executive Vice President and Chief Financial and Regulatory Officer at Hydro One. He previously served as Chief Financial Officer and Interim Chief Executive Officer of WestJet Airlines, and brings decades of financial leadership experience from major North American companies. His extensive background in corporate finance gives him a sharp perspective on how organizations navigate economic uncertainty. Please, join me in welcoming Harry to the podium.
Opening Remarks by Harry Taylor, Executive Vice President, Chief Financial & Regulatory Officer, Hydro One
Thank you, Saurabh. And thank you to all of you. Good afternoon. I’m going to dispense with the commercial for Hydro One, because I think we need to get to the discussion that we’re about to hear and participate in. Canada is facing an extraordinary convergence of pressures, as Saurabh mentioned. Tariffs and trade disruptions, shifting geopolitical alliances—not to mention, war in the Middle East. They’ve combined with existential threats, weak domestic productivity, and stubborn differences, stubborn regional differences, to create a cauldron of challenges. That cauldron is issuing a call for leadership and nation building. Now, as business leaders, we need to look in the mirror, to ensure we’re doing our part to contribute to the growth and prosperity, not just of our stakeholders, or for our stakeholders, but also for the country as a whole. We also need political leaders who are qualified, engaged, and able to rise above partisanship to do what’s right for the country and our fellow citizens.
We have, or we are lucky to have, a political leader who has those qualities with us today. Minister Champagne is an extraordinary leader. He was born in Shawinigan, Québec. Now, by my calculation, Shawinigan has produced two great leaders of our country—and on a per capita basis, that could be the best production rate of any town or country, or city in the country. He’s also famous for the Shawinigan, he’s also known for the Shawinigan Handshake, so consider yourself warned, if he hasn’t already crushed your hand in the preamble today. Educated at the Université de Montréal, also at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland—clearly, didn’t go for the sights. He’s been a resident of Canada, the United States, Italy, and Switzerland. Fluent in three languages, his business career spanned 20 years on 3 continents, and he’s been 10 years in federal politics, holding 5 different cabinet positions.
Through it all, if you go through the minister’s resume, there are some themes. One is growth, two is trade, three is investment, and four is diplomacy—this is my editorial. Minister Champagne, thank you for joining us today. We appreciate your time and your leadership at a moment when fiscal leadership, economic resilience, and the choices that will shape Canada’s future are in everyone’s mind. We’re looking forward to hearing what you have to say with us this afternoon, to us this afternoon.
We’re also lucky to have an expert moderator for today’s discussion. Mr. David Hurle is the co-founder of Air Quotes Media. He’s the host of two podcasts, appropriately named The Curse of Politics, The Hurle Burley. He’s also a partner in Rubicon Strategy, and he has been active in politics for decades. And as I like to say—and I told him I would say this—he is a master of the dark arts of political strategy and tactics. Please, join me in welcoming the honourable François-Philippe Champagne, Canada’s Minister of Finance and National Revenue, and Mr. David Hurle.
The Honourable François‑Philippe Champagne, Canada’s Minister of Finance and National Revenue
I ask for a copy of the introduction. I like it so much that I’m gonna keep that.
David Herle, Co-founder, Air Quotes Media; Host, Curse of Politics & The Herle Burly podcasts; Partner, Rubicon Strategy
As if you didn’t write it.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, you know, once you were having lunch, I was working. That’s called productivity. Great to see everyone. Thank you for being here today. For those that have not had the chance to shake your hands, I’ll try to do that after. You try to beat me at that.
David Herle
Yeah. I will echo you in welcoming everybody here, thanking the Empire Club for putting this event on, and coincidentally welcoming any Hurle-Burleyites who are watching or listening to the podcast version of this, so should get pretty wide distribution. Harry set me up. I have no choice but to respond. Shawinigan may have been the home of two great leaders, but only one great finance minister.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Thanks God he’s not watching today. I’ll get a call later on today.
David Herle
So, let’s start with the easy stuff.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Right.
David Herle
How do you feel about the Habs versus Sabers?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Listen, I’ll tell you a story. This is [Indiscernible], huh? There’s only [Indiscernible] camera in the room. But I just wanna say yesterday, I think I was in Manitoba. I was on the military base in Winnipeg. And the wing commander, I said, “Commander, are you a Habs fan?” He said, “Sir, everyone is a Habs fan today.” So yes, I mean, I feel good. Listen, we’re, you know, proudly Canadian, who would not be. Not necessarily an easy job, but I hope we’re gonna be up to the task. I mean, if we can be inspired by my other friend, Jeremy Hansen, who showed us that sky is no longer the limit, I would hope with the Habs that we can put the best for Canada. I remember once, you know “Tout le Monde a Parle”? This is a show in…
David Herle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
…Québec which there’s a few people watching. And I remember being in the room before the show—it’s live. And one was the coach and me. We were just—I said, “Don’t worry, your interview is gonna be much smoother than mine, if that can help you.” But yeah, I think we’re all eagerly waiting for that.
David Herle
Cool. There’s a lot of specific things I wanna talk to you about today, but I wanna do a little agenda setting first. And you sort of waved off doing a speech, so that we could have this conversation. So, I’m gonna give you sort of an opportunity to give your speech with a couple of opening questions. One of which is, as was I, you were impressed with the introduction. But the introduction, as I presume almost all introductions you get are, paints kind of a dark picture. Certainly paints a very challenging picture of Canada right now. And I just sort of want you to talk about the context in which you’re doing your job right now, and why the stakes feel so much higher than they felt a few years ago.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, I appreciate it. And thank you, by the way, for doing that together. Who would say that we would be on the same stage together? Who would have said that? And thank you to the Empire Club, a century of excellence and leadership. Listen, I’ll start where you started. In a way, if I think about other finance ministers before in this country, the level of uncertainty we’re living in is unprecedented. You know, in 2025, Canada was the chair of the G7. And the finance minister, central bank governors, and I remember saying, my role was to make sure that uncertainty does not become the new certainty.
Now, fast forward to 2026. What I see is that the world is more complex and volatile, which has its own challenge, because the uncertainty is still there. I’ll refer to you to, you know, when we were in Washington, I think it’s about two weeks ago with the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the International Energy Agency, the managing director expressed it, I think, in the best possible way. She said the cloud of uncertainty that is wrapping the world is unprecedented. And, you know, some people say you’d have to go back to 1945, the fall of the Berlin Wall, 1989. So, for me, if you and I were to go out in the street, it just seems to me that the speed, scope, and scale of change is quite unprecedented.
David Herle
Besides Trump, what’s causing that?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Oh, I mean, there’s a lot. I mean, you’d say geoeconomics, geopolitics, you would look at supply chain, but also technology. If you think about AI, quantum, and cyber, I think it has left people around the world. And let me focus on the G7 countries and Canada, but a sense of loss of control. You know, there seems to be a lot of wind in the windshield that you wake up in the morning and there’s a new crisis, the world is more volatile. And I can assure you, when I was in Washington—and that’s gonna be the discussion at the G7 in Paris in about two weeks—my concern is the unknown unknown. You know, that famous phrase is that you look at the conflict in the Middle East today, and geography doesn’t tend to change. People don’t change that much either. So, that’s gonna remain an area of concern.
And I was thinking with colleagues, I was saying, think about the secondary impact. You may have heard about helium, which is fundamental for semiconductor. Then you’re talking about fertilizers, which is essential to food security and the global south. So it’s the compounding effect—I’m with a lot of bankers—it’s the compounding effect of that, the tariffs, the unpredictability, that just feels that it is a very uncertain world, but Canada’s kind of a lighthouse. You know, when I compare ourselves to other G7 nation, we are on solid grounds. The fundamentals are strong. IMF would say we have the strongest fiscal position of any G7 country. Our growth is twice as much as most G7 countries. If you exclude the United States, we’re growing twice as much. We’re faster than any European colleagues, twice as much as Germany.
David Herle
But these are tall midgets, right?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, I would say you have to compare, I mean, if you don’t wanna compare with the G7, then pick who you wanna compare. But you know, Canada’s not immune to what’s happening in the world. I mean, we have learned that, the COVID and other crisis, what’s going in the Middle East. We’re not immune. So, you have to look in relative term, and absolute terms to say, where do we fit in that? But when you say that, I don’t think, you know, I was at the G7 and the Vice Chancellor of Germany, finance minister’s in town this week. We were kind of comparing notes. You know, you’re looking at that. Our growth is twice as much as Germany, twice as much as Japan, three times Italy, faster than the UK, faster than France.
So, but I say growth does not happen just by magic. Growth happens because you take policies—and I’ll stop there to refer to what the IMF director said. She really said, when we were there last time, there is only two country in the G7 who has the fiscal capacity to invest. It’s Canada and Germany. Because we’re the only two with a AAA credit rating. But she said, if you’re smart enough to invest in growth enhancing activities, you’ll see that in the revenues. And she mentioned infrastructure. She mentioned housing. She mentioned productivity and innovation. And I think that’s the path that we have, you know, taken, while at the same time focusing on affordability. Because if you and I went out of this room and I did media, it’s, the concern is housing, it’s grocery, and it’s gas. So, that’s also the reality we have to take care of.
David Herle
Right. Okay. So, you talked about the fiscal situation, and Canada having one of the best fiscal situations in the G7, the Western world, whatever. But we are—I’m just curious about this. I just want you to explain this a little bit, because you are running historically large deficits by Canadian terms. And you had some extra money in the update, and you invested it, rather than paid down, rather than reduce the deficit with it. So, that implies to me that ideally, in an ideal world, you’d like to invest more than you’re investing right now. I’m just wondering, in the absence of like a balanced budget objective, or a debt to GDP objective, what are the principles or guardrails you are considering, when you think what we can afford and what we can’t afford?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, I think the biggest takeaway from a week ago is restoring fiscal discipline. I mean, you know, it’s not just about the deficit number which is lower, but it’s the 60 billion in savings as well, which we said Canadians have been tightening their belt for some time. We need to tighten their belt. If you look at the direct expenses for program going from about 8% to 2%, those are the type of things that you slow down the machinery of government, in a sense that you provide services, you use automation, you streamline services. You do what needed to be done. And it compares well, by the way, the 60 billion, to what Prime Minister Harper did, Prime Minister Chrétien, Prime Minister—well, Minister Martin, at the time, of Finance did. It’s in the same scale.
Now, to your point about the fiscal situation, I think what, well, first of all, our deficit to GDP is going down, as we have said. It’s one of the lowest deficit to GDP in the G7. Our net debt to GDP is the lowest. But what I think Canadians understand—well, two things. First of all, you have to be where people are. A lot of people are concerned about the end of the week and the end of the month. You know, what’s gonna happen with grocery affordability? You mentioned my friend Peter, the Minister of Finance, Doug Ford here in Ontario. We made sure that we invest in housing. Because that is the pillar, the biggest pillar of affordability is usually affordable homes, you know, like some, a place to live which is safe that you can afford. After that, you go at grocery, and we said, okay, the Grocery Rebate. This is a boost, you know, because we look at the excess inflation since COVID on food, and we’re gonna try to mine the gap for people. And then you’re looking at the gas, and you say, okay, we’ll give a break to people. Focused, targeted, time limited, but the 10 cents is, you know, you’re seeing the impact of that. So, that’s one side of the ledger where I think you need to lead with your head, but close to your heart, in a sense that you cannot be, you cannot be dissociated. You have to be connected with the reality on the ground.
So, Canadians would tell me, we get the plan, we understand where you’re going, the plan is on track, we’re building big, we’re building strong, we’re building at the speed not seen in generation, but what about me today? And I think that’s the balance. If you look at the 7 billion of additional revenue we got, 60% of that is to support people. So, at the time where you’re building, you know, as we call it Canada Strong, you need to bring everyone on board with you. And affordability, I can assure you, if you came to the G7 with me—although you’d have to put a tie—if you came to the G7 with me, you would see that….
David Herle
How about the World Economic Forum? Can I go there?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
I think. I mean, kind of, you know….
David Herle
I’m wearing black shoes. At a minimum, I’m wearing black shoes.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Yeah, it’s, yeah. If you wanna talk about fashion, I would have a few things to say. But seriously, I think when you’re looking at the affordability thing, that’s what I was saying, this is the topic. I mean, you talk about Western Nation, OEC, the G7, I think this is the, one of the biggest challenge was all facing. Because, like I said to Canadians sometime, yes, we need to take action, but we’re not immune. I mean, you talk about the Middle East conflict, like I said, this is impacting the whole issue. How long, you know, what’s gonna be the damage?
When you talk—and I had a lot of colleagues in the Middle East to whom I talk, I mean, if you look at Fatih Birol, which is the executive director of the International Energy Agency, which is in town, said this is the biggest shock in terms of energy that we have seen ever. So, I go back to your premise, when you said what about you, compared to other finance minister, is that with the fog of uncertainty wrapping the world, I don’t have a crystal ball, but the prime minister has been very clear that, let’s focus on what we can control. You could sit back and say, okay, let’s see, or you can take action and say, okay, what do we control? Well, we can remove inter-provincial trade barriers. That’s 200 billion in the GDP. We can decide to export to new markets. We’re always gonna do with our American friends, but, you know, it happens that the world wants what Canada has to offer. And if you look at a trajectory of exports, you see a pickup in export to overseas market. You can decide to do major project in the country. You can decide to use our natural resources as being an energy provider. People call us like a partner of choice.
So, there’s a lot of things we need to do domestically, and I think this house and this place has been inviting people to talk about these things. And I think it’s not just about the people on the stage; it’s each and every one of us in our own community and leadership position that say, I really feel this is our moment. I’ve never felt more upbeat about Canada. But obviously, if you and I were in Hamilton today and steel, you don’t feel the same. If you’re going to Oshawa in the auto sector, you don’t feel that way. If you’re going in my neck of the wood where they produce aluminum, it doesn’t look good. If you’re in softwood lumber in Northern BC, that’s not how you feel. So, what we’re seeing is that at the national level, macro level, yes, we’re doing fine, but in sectors and regions of the country we’re hurting and that’s why you saw the support.
So, my point is that you have to invest in the future, but be mindful of the reality of today. And I think that’s the balance that any finance minister, any prime minister has to tackle at the time of great uncertainty in the world.
David Herle
Okay, cool. So, you talked a fair bit about affordability in there, and this is something that I think during, in the post-COVID world, we thought was an inflation problem in the country, but now it just turns out to be a cost of living problem. Now that inflation is under control, minus energy costs, it’s still a real challenge for people. And we’re really seeing it in really tangible ways, like the massive numbers of people showing up at food banks, who are food insecure now, et cetera. So, is the plan for this cost of living crisis in the country a macroeconomic plan to raise wages, or is there more social policy infrastructure to come?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, I’m happy you raised that. I mean, wages have been growing faster than inflation in the last three years. So, that is the number. Now, if you and I go in the street, there’s a lot of people that say, “Well, I don’t really feel it.” You know, I mean, it might be true like they would say, but I don’t really feel it when I go to the grocery store. And I go back to the Grocery Benefit, which, you know, the 5th of June is gonna give a boost and a bridge. Boost is like, what we did with the Prime Minister, we basically look at the excess food inflation. So, what you’ve seen since COVID, in particular, there’s been like that jump in price of food, you know. And what we said is that how can we compensate people with that, so that at least we give them a boost for what we’ve seen since COVID, because that has kept with us.
Now, the other thing I would say, there are structural things we need to do, because one thing is to support people in today, which we need to do, but there’s a lot of things. I mean, if you look, we import what, 30% of produce; when you go to winter, you were probably close to 70%. So, I talked to farmers across the nation. I said, “Okay, what do we need to do?” Because the other thing I should say—which people, if there’s one thing that people may remember of today, is the nexus between food security, energy security, economic security, and national security. I mean, that nexus has never been closer. I’ll give you behind the scene. When I was, you know, foreign minister, you would expect people to talk about national security. You would not necessarily expect when I’m at the US Treasury, or others, we talk so much about national security, because all these things are linking up to national security. Think about food security. If you’re a partner in Asia, food security and energy security become national security very quickly, when the supply chains are broken, when the price has dislocation, when supply is not secured.
And so, I just wanna come back to that. That for us, for example, in terms of food security, we are an energy superpower. I dream that we are a food superpower, as well. We can play a big role in feeding the world. I was just in Manitoba, and looking at the capacity and innovation in production, as well. So, what we’ve been looking is what we can do, structurally. So greenhouses, we look also at the supply chain, the cold supply chain to maintain these produce. Because obviously, when you import, you’re dependent on currency fluctuation, you’re dependent on trade, you’re dependent on weather patterns. So, there are structural things in the country, the bottleneck in logistics that we need to address.
So, my point is two things. You help people where they are today, but we also need structurally to address some of these choke points that we have, so that we are more resilient. I think what the world is teaching us, if there’s one thing, is resiliency. You may remember before COVID was all about efficiency, supply chain just in time. And I remember meeting one CEO, he said—well, that was before the tariff situation, but was in the U.S. and he said, you know what I like about Canada is that if things go bad, I can truck it. And he said, if they go really bad, I can take my own pickup and pick it up, you know, because it’s like—and I think that sense, what used to be regional become more regional. People are looking at things which are more resilient. And I think for us as a nation, we might have been a bit complacent over the years, in the sense over-reliance, perhaps because of the Canadian dollar, the proximity, the geography. We’ve been blessed by many things in this country. And therefore, now it’s kind of a moment for the nation to seize the opportunity, make sure we fix what needs to be fixed, and open ourselves to the world. And that’s really the agenda we’ve been pursuing.
David Herle
Okay. I’ve heard you, and I’ve heard the Minister of Industry talk about the role of competition in lowering prices. And I know that when you were the industry minister, you were a strong advocate of that, too. What does the government have in mind there? What might change, in terms of competition in Canada?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, I mean, most people would agree more competition leads to better outcome for consumers. I mean, that’s just like, like if you see diversification when you invest is a prudent way to do things. We need more competition in the country. We’ve seen results, for example, with [Indiscernible] plans, you know, but we need to always do more. It is true again in the numbers, but then you need to switch plan. I mean, so we’re trying to always push the envelope, because competition is not easy. I tried in the food sector—I thought you were going there, because I know you—and you would have said, Minister, you tried, and what have you accomplished? I said, listen, I’m gonna try. I know it’s difficult, but it’s worth it. Because structuring in our country, we need more players, we need more innovation, we need more productivity, which you know, competition is conduct, you know, will help to have more innovation. So, the agenda is there. What I did at the time….
David Herle
Are you talking about bringing in new competitors?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, I tried. There were recent—I’ll give you, again, behind the scenes. So, I met one of the largest one, which was interested in Canada; believe it or not, they could not find Site A in the country to lease, because they had non-compete clause that would prevent most of the time for them to enter the market. So, we made the change back when I was minister to make that illegal, in a sense. If it’s a restriction of competition, these long non-compete were basically creating food desert, because even when one big incumbent was gone, no one could go there for the next 5, 10, 20 years. So, communities were saying it doesn’t make sense. So, you would not expect that, but that’s where you need to listen. That’s why you need to go out. That’s why you need to engage.
And I think what I did at the time, which is giving more tools in the toolbox, gone are the days, for example, where the Competition Bureau would knock on your door—maybe not yours—and ask you for information. And you could say, well, thanks, but no thanks. Today, we give them subpoena power. We need the information to protect consumer, to make sure that we have a more competitive place. But it’s, this is work in progress. We’re just getting started. You can never pretend that you have done enough. You know, we’re looking at that, look at what’s going south of the border, our partners, and a lot of that also has an international component, which we’re working with our partners.
David Herle
Right. So, competition in, say, the financial services sector.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
M’hm (affirmative).
David Herle
We’ve always been proud of our banking system because it’s strong and mighty, and it withstood the financial crisis, and it doesn’t do the crazy things the American financial system does. Does that bring downsides that need to be addressed?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, I mean, it’s a great thing that we have a very solid financial system in the country. I think in times like that, I would say prudence. When people look at me and say, yeah, I wanna be prudent. You wanna be prudent. When the world is in a phase like that, the level of uncertainty, like I said—and don’t take it from me, but if you look, it’s the Uncertainty Index published by the International Monetary Fund. So, you want prudence. So, I think it’s a great thing. That’s why you see investors, when they see Canada, it’s stability, predictability, and opportunity. You know, we’ve seen that in the numbers. I mean, we’re at a 20-year eye of foreign direct investment. You saw Shell recently, another vote of confidence. You saw Equinor on Bay du Nord, which is offshore of Newfoundland, Morticon. I mean, we feel it. I think the speech of the Prime Minister in Davos resonated. You know, people feel confident that we’re getting our act together. Is it mission accomplished? No. We have more to do, more streamline and processes, better predictability when people can get permits.
But I would say that when I look at the macro level, yes, we are competitive. I mean, if you look at our tax rate—because I’m in a crowd here that would focus on that—but if you look even at that, our marginal effective tax rate in Canada now is lower than the United States by 3%. So, we are the most competitive jurisdiction in the G7 for any new business investment. That’s just the fact. And—[Applause]—but yeah, I think we should, this is us. This is Canada. And I am so glad to be here today. Well, there’s many reasons. I knew I would be with you on a panel.
David Herle
Thank you very much.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
But there’s a lot of reason that I see everyone in this room as an ambassador. Now, I spent 20 years of my life in corporate, outside of Canada. And I’m always reminded that there’s very few people waking up in the morning around the world thinking about Canada. I do. I hope you do. But there’s very few people. So, we need to bring our story to the world. The example I just gave you, I gave to a global CEO recently, and he said, “Oh, I didn’t realize that.” And you look at the Investment Tax Credit. You look at our position in nuclear energy. You look at the pillars. The fundamentals of Canada are strong. Let me take maybe 30 seconds for that. But you look at, for example, we have the most educated workforce in the world. And I would say to you that immigration is still seen in this country as a positive. Find me a country in the world where people talk like that. That this has enriched our society. That has enabled to be who we are today. Look at the country in the G7—don’t need to look at many—that can produce a plane from start to finish, that can produce a car from start to finish, that can produce a ship from start to finish. There’s not that many. Then you look at critical minerals. And you say, “Who has critical minerals amongst the G7?” There’s not that many. And critical minerals people would say are akin to all in the 20th century. Because critical minerals are about everything in the 21st century. Then you look at energy. People would say demography is destiny. I’d put it to you, energy is destiny. You know, producing energy. We are a pillar, when it comes to conventional energy, when it comes to renewable, when it comes to nuclear. Candu, to name one, which is used around the world, and people are more interested.
And lastly, we’re the only G7 country with a free trade with all the other G7 nation. That give us preferential market access to 1.5 billion people around the world. When you look at that—and trust me, when you sit at the G7 table, people look at you and they say, “We are in an enviable position.” I think this is once-in-a-generation opportunity for this country to really do the work that we need to do, that we talked about, and open ourselves to the world at a time where the world is craving for a predictable, stable, and sustainable partner that can be with them for generations to come or decades to come. And I think this is our moment.
David Herle
Okay. I love the pep talk, and it feels real to me. But you’ve been, from your time in office out there around the world selling Canada to people, and trying to convince people to invest in Canada in a variety of different jobs, over a period of time. And I’m really interested—and you talk a lot about having one-on-one conversations. CEOs have your cell phone number, you’ve got theirs, you talked to them. How are those conversations different today than they were in 2017? And what are they asking of Canada, more than what you’ve just said? Like, you know, more than what we’re offering, what do they need from us?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
It’s a very good question. I think the tone at the top matters. Let’s start with that. You know, with perceptions become reality. The echo is certainly powerful. And it’s not just me, if you have other guests at this table, you would certainly hear that. I talked to CEOs in Canada. They’re investors, they’re shareholders. You sense that there’s a buzz about Canada. We were in Australia with the Supers, which are their equivalent of the Maple Eight. And they only were so—I mean, I did an event like that with hundreds of people in the room. I think that, so this is like, people have seen that.
I would say the Davos speech has certainly been also a moment in our nation history, and I’ll give you behind the scene again. I’m with the Prime Minister of Canada, and we’re meeting Prime Minister Modi of India. And we’re sitting next to each other, even closer, me and the Prime Minister. And here you have the Prime Minister of India quoting the speech of the Prime Minister of Canada. We look at each other, and we say, it’s not very often, to say the least, that you would have world leaders refer to a speech of a Canadian Prime Minister, and in very complimentary terms, and say, thank you, Prime Minister, and Prime Minister of Canada. We say, sir, this is it. You know, this is, you can make that. This is reality, is that that has resonated.
The third thing I think is because of the uncertainty that you see in the world. When you talk, I mean, when I talk to investors, I’d say, David, if it was your money, look at the planet today, and assume you need energy. And when you make energy decision, it’s not for tomorrow, it’s not for next week, it’s not for next month, it’s not for next year; it’s probably for the next 5, 10, 20, 30 years and beyond. So, you have to look at the long history. You know, there’s always the short history and the long history of humanity. You look at Canada, and if you’re an investor, you look—like I said, we’ve been blessed by geography, access to three oceans, next to the United States, ports on both coasts, soon to have one in the Arctic, natural resources, critical minerals, energy, people, knowledge, AI. It’s a fairly attractive play, you know, because if—and you look at the growth pattern, if I can quote you these numbers, trust me, investors know how to read these reports, as well. So, they say this is a country which is growing, this is a country which is serious, this is a country that knows the challenges but are trying to address them.
You know, the issue about predictability on permitting is not uniquely Canadian, look at other countries, we need to do better, we need to do more. So, but at least we’re recognizing the challenges, and turn these challenges into opportunity. The Major Project Office, you know, getting the world to see what we can do together, talking about enterprise, talking about ports, talking about critical minerals. So, my feeling—but I think people in the room would probably have partners, friends, colleagues, investors with them. You find the buzz, the momentum, I would call, and that kind of momentum is precious. It’s usually a window in history, where you have that kind of window, and they say, who is a predictable, stable, who can be my partner of choice for energy today? Who can be my partner of choice today for food security? And I would say when you talk to people, because some of the challenges, regional security issues, like I said, geography doesn’t change much, and people don’t change much either. So, that always gonna remain, you know, it’s gonna be solved one day, but these issues are gonna remain. So, I think, you know, there’s kind of a momentum building that Canada is seen as a partner of choice, when you’re looking where you wanna source things that would go not only to your economy, but that would be key to your national security.
David Herle
Okay. Politico reported this week that Canada and the US were very close to a deal on steel and aluminum. And it fell apart not over the advertisement that the Ontario government ran in the United States, but over Canada’s insistence to Stellantis that it live up to its undertakings to Canada. Is that true?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, listen, one thing that people have learned—and maybe, I’ve been there for quite a bit, I was Minister of Foreign Affairs during the President’s first term, so we’ve seen quite a bit, eh? And I think….
David Herle
I’ve seen enough, myself.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Yeah. I would say, I’ve seen quite a bit, you know, things change. Don’t always take things that face value. There’s like, there’s a lot of changing, you know. My point with that, I’d say, listen, we’re in kind of a smaller room, cat-and-mouse feeling. But if you look at how we have approached that, I think we’ve been very strategic. And I’m not saying that because I’m part of the government, because I’m minister all that, but if you look at….
David Herle
Although, those are good reasons to say it.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, they are.
David Herle
Yeah.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
But I would say, as a Canadian—and I can tell you our partners around the world are looking how we’ve done—we still have 85% of our trade which is under the exemption, and we have the lowest effective tariff rate, if you want, of anyone around the world. We’re not shouting that, but this is reality. Now, like I said, you have sectorial issues which are very concerning. People say, oh, we want certainty, but what is certainty today? And what’s the cost of certainty? Now, some of our allies went and had agreement. Good for them. I keep saying we have one, and signed by the President himself. But look at what happened over the weekend. You might be in Europe, and say we have an agreement. Oh, there’s 25% tariff on cars made in Europe. Who saw that coming? So, my point is that I always say be careful, you know, how you approach that, because I think being strategic, insisting on getting the right deal as opposed to a deal, has served Canada well.
Everyone would want certainty. Everyone. I’m the first, everyone in this room, your clients, your partners want that. But what is certainty today, in a world where there is a level of unpredictability, despite the fact that you may have an agreement in your hand that you cherish. We all have seen, there’s a chart we published—or I think was the IMF, where you see the tariff variation over a period of time for countries around the world. And it’s really a chart like that. So, my point is that the kind of volatility we have seen, I think the way we have approached it as being strategic for Canada, I understand the need and the wish for certainty. But I would always caution, you know, getting something quick might not give you the kind of certainty that people are wishing for, I think being strategic. And I would say….
David Herle
You don’t sound like a guy who’s desperate to get a deal in this review period.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, listen, we, certainly we’re gonna be at the table. I speak with Secretary Bessent regularly. We meet probably, I don’t know, 10 times a year. So, the communication channel are there. The Prime Minister is talking to the President. Minister LeBlanc is doing the work that needs to be done. So, we are engaging, and I would say to you, David, and I know you wouldn’t understand, there’s far more going on in the background sometime than what’s in the public. And anyone who has negotiated anything here, you don’t want necessarily to negotiate in the public. You wanna make sure that, you know, you do that in a strategic fashion. But I would say, like I said, our focus is to fight for workers, our industry, and our sectors. But I would caution, like, a lot of my colleagues, which I deal with in the G7, may have an agreement, but you know, we have all seen that these tend to be interpreted, I would say, or modified fairly quickly over time. So, I think our strategy has paid us, has been good for Canada.
David Herle
Cool. I wanna squeeze in, in the few remaining minutes, I wanna squeeze in a couple of questions from the audience.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Yes.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
David Herle
So, the first one is, would it be unreasonable, given the rhetoric a year ago about the stakes that we were facing and the speed at which we were going to move, would it be unreasonable for a person to have expected to see more activity on the major project front, at this point?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, we have $126 billion of projects. I mean, the government is an enabler, the proponents are the doer. In a sense that you would expect government to enable, but really, it’s really, that question would be best asked to proponents. Now, we had a lot of vote of confidence recently. I take Shell recently, I think it’s 12 billion or more. You have Equinor, you have a number of others which have decided to choose Canada for their long-term growth. The Investment Summit in Toronto will be a catalyst for that. So people have been voting with their investment, I would say, and see that. We’ll do more. I think this is a newer way for Canada to do, you know, kind of approaching that. I like the model in Australia, Infrastructure Australia. It’s the first thing I did when I landed there.
David Herle
What’s the model?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, they’ve been doing for quite some time to publish the kind of infrastructure they build in their country, both at the federal and state level, to make sure that investors and people who wanna be part of that would be there. And I think also the fund we created, the Canada Strong Fund, I think for me also is gonna be a catalyst to co-invest with the private sector on an arm’s-length basis, and in a truly Canadian fashion, give an opportunity for Canadians, retail investors, to be part of that story of growth in Canada.
David Herle
Right, okay. Second question from….
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
I can do shorter answers, if you want more.
David Herle
I didn’t know that.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
I saw that in your eyes somehow.
David Herle
So, given that that one was quick, let me do a quick follow-up. What is the retail opportunity in the wealth fund that you’re creating? There was a sort of a notional thing, opportunity for Canadians to invest in it. How might that work, and why might we do that? Why would we do that?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
And you want me to be short.
David Herle
Yeah.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
This is the thing I’m most excited about. No, listen, I was very adamant with the Prime Minister to have a retail component. And if you look at the international press, you’d love that, I think it was Bloomberg. The title was Canada Create Its Own Sovereign Fund, but in a truly Canadian way, they will have a retail component, which I love, because they say that’s gonna be the only sovereign fund. Well, I don’t, the ones that I know that will have a retail component. So, this was really to make it accessible and easy for people to be part of a bigger story. You’re creating collective wealth, but at the same time, if you’re a small investor, no, there’s a lot of smart people in the room. There’s products, if you’re a qualified investor. I mean, there’s a way to get into these big projects. But if you and I were to take the subway, just get out and walk in the subway and say, how do you feel about being part of building these big projects? Most retail investors would feel this is out of reach. You know, they don’t see how they could be part of a port, for example, or one of these big projects that’s gonna build a country. And I thought the retail aspect was really to give a chance to people, to be part of building something which is the Canada of tomorrow.
And for me, there was something about also kind of national unity. We’re in this together. If you have a bit of savings, not obliged, but if you wanna do, you have a bit, you wanna be part. It’s kind of, there’s something that I like about that that is truly Canadian. It’s in line with our values. And if you look at international per se, this is so Canadian. They’re doing it, but they’re allowing people also to be part of it. But we’ll consult with the experts in the room. There’s a lot of things that we need to define, a lot of questions to be answered, that’s normal. But the concept was really to give, to build something that 20 years, you and I, maybe—I don’t know if you will still do what you do—20 years, we could be on a podium.
David Herle
I don’t know that I’m built for distance, man.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
No, I don’t know. Let’s not comment on that. But I would say 20 years from now, 30 years, we’ll look back, look at the Nordics, and others. I think this is a pillar that you build in a country, allowing people to be part of that story, if they so wish. I think it is a nice component of it.
David Herle
Very.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Sorry, I’ll try to be shorter in the next one.
David Herle
That was great. One more. One of the people in the audience wants to know, what are the prospects of our growing relationship with Europe, and the ongoing dialogue with Europe, and integration with their activities? This Armenian thing seemed very significant this past week. So, where is all that potentially going?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Well, it’s very interesting—and thank you for whoever asked the question. We can have another one. I’m sure they’ll leave us another minute or two. But I think it starts with values. I mean, I am one of the first, or the first finance minister that has been invited to what they call EcoFin. So, it’s the finance minister of Europe or the Eurogroup, which is obviously those countries use Euro. And the reason why is that they want a transatlantic voice to the table. And they see Canada as that voice. That is fascinating. I went to the Eurogroup, and you know, in a purely Canadian fashion, but a bit humble, like, first time they invited a Canadian finance minister, they said, “Do you mind to go first?” I said, I would have been quite okay to go even after, you know, I’m just the newest invitee to your table. But it just, he say, no, no, everyone wants to hear a transatlantic view first. And I think it just give a sense of a world where Canada, because we are always at the big table, the G7, the G20, La Francophonie, Commonwealth, I mean, we’re all at these big NATO, I mean, you add on. There’s a sense that people want to hear from us. They want to know where we’re going, how we see the world. And there’s something inspiring about that, that they’re very keen to engage in a transatlantic way, and see Canada at this particular moment in history as the voice at the table aligned with values, aligned in democracy, aligned in how we want to shape the world together, and still committed to multilateralism, still committed to institutions, because that’s how Canada has been thriving for decades.
So, I would say it’s very empowering when you hear colleagues that say, we want to hear from you, and you being Canada at the table, and what you’re doing. And obviously, it goes to energy, it goes to critical minerals, good, all things, but I think it starts with values. They really like what this country is about.
David Herle
Okay. Just jumping off that then, if we’ve got another second. One of the US officials last week said there’s a big difference between Canada and the United States now, and that is that Canada still believes in globalization, and we don’t. What do you take from that?
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
I think we still need to, we will always have to engage with our partners south of the border. I do that in my own way. Like I said, when we chair the G7, I was always keen to make sure we bring unity. The world wants to see unity now. We will not agree on everything, obviously. But I think there’s a sense that there’s a lot of common challenges, you know, what’s going on in the Middle East, climate change, and you can add to that, you know, economic security around the world. And the United States has always played an important role in that global order. Now, there’s things that needs to be reformed, there’s things that needs to be modernized. But I think Canada, going back to your previous question, is still seen as this link that so many want. You know, people don’t want to lose this transatlantic voice in the big discussion. And I think that’s why when you ask me, it’s our moment. I’ve never been more confident in Canada. I’ve never been more confident in Canadians. I’ve never been more confident in what we can achieve as a nation. Like I said, Canada is blessed by resources. Canadians, our resource is people. Canada is inspiring in so many ways, at the time where the fog of uncertainty is wrapping this world. So I always say, let’s seize the moment, let’s be ambitious, and let’s build this Canada strong altogether. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you very much.
David Herle
Minister, thanks for your time…
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Thank you very much, sir.
David Herle
…for your insights, it was great.
The Hon. François‑Philippe Champagne
Thank you very much. You did a great job. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. That was your last question, right?
David Herle
It was.
Saurabh Popat
Thank you, merci, Minister Champagne, and thank you, David. Can we have another round of applause for an excellent conversation? We appreciate you both bringing such clarity and perspective to today’s conversation. Navigating economic uncertainty requires strong financial partnerships, and a clear understanding of the markets. Before we conclude, I’d like to recognize our lead Season Sponsor, National Bank Capital Markets, who play a vital role in supporting Canadian businesses and investors through shifting economic landscapes. National Bank Capital Markets, their commitment to strengthening our country’s economic future makes them an ideal partner for today’s event. It’s now my pleasure to invite Dan Nowlan, Vice Chairman and Managing Director of Equity Capital Markets, Corporate and Investment Banking, at National Bank of Canada, to the stage. Please, join me in welcoming Dan.
Note of Appreciation by Dan Nowlan, Vice Chairman & Managing Director, Equity Capital Markets, Corporate & Investment Banking, National Bank of Canada
Minister Champagne, [Remarks in French]. Minister Champagne, thank you again for your address, and your discussion with David. At a time when Canadians are navigating real uncertainty and economic and geopolitical and technological changes, your remarks struck a tone that was forward-looking. You reminded us that uncertainty, while challenging, can also be a moment for clarity. Clarity of purpose, to develop our natural resources, and make sure we can best access the markets for our products. You did so while acknowledging many Canadians, particularly in the business community, have felt that economic growth has not always been a central focus of federal policy over the last decade, making today’s emphasis on productivity and competitiveness especially refreshing. What resonated strongly was your emphasis on growth, and removing obstacles to that growth. As it had been famously said, perfection is not achieved when there’s nothing to add, but when there’s nothing left to remove. Hopefully, the obstacles that remain will soon be removed.
Thank you, as well, for speaking plainly about the global context we face, while expressing confidence in Canada’s ability to navigate it, and by leading into our strengths and unleashing our potential. I’d also like to thank, sincere thank you to my friend David Hurle for a thoughtful and engaging fireside chat with the minister, which helped bring these issues to life. On behalf of everyone here today, thank you for your willingness to serve in our community, and your commitment to public life. Please join me in thanking Minister François-Phillippe Champagne.
Concluding Remarks by Saurabh Popat
Thank you again to our panellists, sponsors and of course to all of you for joining us here today. I’d also like to take a moment to recognize the students and the young leaders joining us today. Their presence is made possible through the charitable arm of the Empire Club Foundation, and the generosity of our donors. This—oh, excellent, excellent. They’re our future leaders, Minister. This support enables us to invite future leaders to take part in today’s dialogue, and to empower them to turn knowledge into leadership that shines in communities, boardrooms, and national conversations shaping Canada’s future.
To stay connected, please subscribe to our newsletter by scanning the QR code on your tables, and I hope that you’ll also join us for two upcoming exciting events. On Tuesday, May the 12th, we’ll host our second annual “State of the Airport” with Deborah Flint, President and CEO of Toronto Pearson. She’ll outline the next year of growth for Canada’s Gateway Airport. Following her remarks, Andrew Willis from the Globe and Mail will moderate a discussion on how the Pearson Region drives national prosperity.
Then on June the 4th, we welcome Lieutenant-General Michael Wright, Commander of the Canadian Army. He will discuss how Canada is modernizing our land forces to defend our sovereignty. A panel of experts will then explore how business and government can collaborate to build the army our country needs.
Finally, we invite you to join us on June 2nd, if you’re available, at the Glen Abbey Golf Course for our inaugural Empire Club Golf Tournament. The event features TSN Golf Analyst Bob Weeks and offers a great day of sport, leadership and networking. All net proceeds will support the Empire Club Foundation in equipping the next generation of Canadian leaders with scholarships and mentorship. Tickets are now on sale.
And as always, as a club of record, all Empire Club events are available to watch and listen to on our website. The recording of today’s event will be available shortly. Thank you all for being a part of this important conversation. This meeting is now adjourned. Thank you.
