April 10, 2025
The Empire Club of Canada Presents
Nicolle Butcher, President and CEO of Ontario Power Generation: Powering-Up Ontario
Chairperson: Jenna Donelson, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Distinguished Guest Speaker
Nicolle Butcher, President & CEO, Ontario Power Generation (OPG)
Moderator
Amanda Galbraith, Partner, Oyster Group
Head Table Guests
John Gorman, President of Westinghouse Canada
Joseph Mancinelli, International Vice-President, Canadian Director, LiUNA
Welcome Address by Jenna Donelson, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Hello, everyone. Welcome. I’m Jenna Donelson. I am chair of the board of directors of the Empire Club of Canada, and your host for today’s event.
To begin, I’d like to acknowledge that we are gathering on the Traditional and Treaty Lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat Peoples. I encourage you all to learn more about the Traditional Territories on which you live and work.
I also know that in this big room today, we have a number of dignitaries. We have elected officials here, we have civil servants, we have dignitaries from the US. I’d just like to invite everybody who is a dignitary to stand up, please, so we can recognize you. It is great to have you here. I have now exhausted myself, because I don’t have a script in front of me. So, if you’ll excuse me for a moment, I’m going to run down and grab my papers, so that I make sure that I have everybody’s name right when we go through the sponsors. In fact, they’ve just given it to me—so, they’re keeping me on my toes for sure today. Oh, thanks, Amanda. All right. The reason I cannot memorize all the sponsors is because there are a number of you today, and we really appreciate it.
Today’s event would not be possible without the generous support of our sponsors. I think you all know by now that our sponsors, the Empire Club, is a nonprofit organization. Our sponsors generously support the club; they make events like this possible. For those of you that are online, they make viewing complimentary. So, please join me, in thanking our Lead Sponsors, Westinghouse, LiUNA, and GE Hitachi. Thank you for your support. Thank you, as well, to our VIP Reception Sponsors, AtkinsRéalis, Humber Polytechnic, Siemens Energy, the Nuclear Waste Management Organization, and the Provincial Building and Construction Trades Council of Ontario. Thank you for your support of this event. And thank you, as well, to our Supporting Sponsors, AECON, Black & McDonald, BWXT, Lifespire, PWC, Enbridge, Power Workers Union, and the Society of United Professionals. Thank you. And we really couldn’t do these events without the ongoing support of our Lead Season Sponsors, Bruce Power, and Hydro One, and our VIP Reception Season Sponsors, Ellis Don, and Waste Connections of Canada. Thank you for your support. And finally, thank you to our Media Partner, the Toronto Star, and our AV Partner, Bespoke Audio Visual. We appreciate you. Thank you.
If you have a question for our speakers, please scan the QR code found on your program. If you’re online, use the Q&A function. For those of you online, if you need technical assistance, use the chat feature, and our staff will be there to help you.
As we can see from public opinion, the media, and conversations that we’re all having, Canada’s role in the electricity sector is shifting fast. There’s a perfect storm of geopolitical instability, extreme weather, and supply chain uncertainty forming around us. And at the same time, artificial intelligence is transforming how we plan, deliver, and consume electricity. The stakes are high. But it’s not the first time we’ve been here at an energy crossroads, and it’s not the first time we’ve talked about some of these issues here at the Empire Club. The Empire Club stage has hosted conversations about Canada’s electricity and energy sectors for as long as we’ve been in existence, for more than 120 years.
Back in 1971, the Honourable John Turner delivered a powerful reminder of what can be at stake, when we talk about electricity and energy policy. It’s not just an economic issue, but it’s a matter of identity and sovereignty. I’m going to capture a little bit of what he said. He said, “Insisting upon a national rather than continental energy policy is not anti-American. It is protection of our birthright. Resisting a continental resources policy is legitimate self-interest in any country that wants to find jobs for its people. It’s inherent in our national self-respect.” More than 50 years later, that conversation still feels very current. Because once again, the electricity and energy sectors are intertwined with our identity as a country, and with our future too. And as demand surges, infrastructure ages, and new technologies like artificial intelligence reshape the way we work and live, the pressures on our electricity system continue to grow.
And that’s why today’s speaker is such an important one for us to be hearing from, at this moment. Very shortly, Nicolle Butcher is taking the stage for the first time, as President and CEO of OPG, one of North America’s most diverse electricity generators. We’re all looking forward to hearing her vision for how OPG plans to lead in this moment of transformation. But first, it’s my pleasure to welcome a representative from one of our great supporters, and Lead Sponsors of this event, Westinghouse Electric Company. Westinghouse has been at the forefront of nuclear innovation for decades, and continues to play a role in advancing clean energy solutions across Canada, and around the world. So, I’m delighted to welcome John Gorman, president of Westinghouse Canada, to the stage. Please join me, in welcoming John.
Opening Remarks by John Gorman, President, Westinghouse Canada
Well, good afternoon. How is everyone? Another very timely luncheon, and speaking engagement here, by the Empire Club. But what a terrific job they do, of bringing us together at pivotal times like this. As President of Westinghouse Canada, I am proud to represent a company that’s been at the cornerstone of Canada’s nuclear landscape for over 40 years. And now, of course, proudly owned by Canadian energy powerhouses, Cameco and Brookfield. Westinghouse is firmly committed to helping Ontario meet its clean energy demand, through proven, ready-now nuclear technologies, like the AP1000 reactor. We believe Ontario is uniquely positioned to lead in global nuclear innovation, while driving the Canadian economy, supply chain, and energy cost security.
With a commitment to buy where we build, Westinghouse has a robust local supply chain and a clear path to deliver affordable, reliable power for generations. Westinghouse is ready to partner with Ontario at this critical time. From supplying key components to supporting innovation in next generation reactor technologies, Westinghouse is deeply embedded in the fabric of our clean energy ecosystem. We believe in the power of nuclear to deliver safe, reliable, de-risked, and emissions-free electricity, not just for today, but for the generations to come. And in that mission, we stand shoulder-to-shoulder with leaders like today’s speaker, who are advancing Canada’s energy future with bold vision, and unwavering purpose.
Nicolle Butcher is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Ontario Power Generation, one of the largest and most dynamic clean energy companies in North America. In over two decades with OPG, Nicolle has led the vision across multiple portfolios, from commercial management to Indigenous partnerships, from nuclear operations, to corporate strategy. But what sets Nicolle apart is her ability to navigate the complexity of today’s energy challenges, while never losing sight of the people who power the energy sector. She understands the communities we serve, the teams we build, and the future generations that we are working to protect. She’s a respected voice not only in the boardroom, but in public discourse, advocating for thoughtful, inclusive, and practical solutions to Canada’s energy needs. And so, it is with great admiration—and some anticipation, Nicolle—that I welcome you to the podium today.
Jenna Donelson
Thank you, John, for those great remarks. And now the moment so many of us have been looking forward to. John said most of it, but it is also my pleasure to introduce today’s speaker. Nicolle Butcher is the President and CEO of Ontario Power Generation. She stepped into the role earlier this year, after more than 25 years with OPG, where she’s led nearly every part of the organization. We are lucky to have her here today, to speak to all of you. So, please join me, in welcoming to the stage Nicolle Butcher.
Now, joining Nicolle today, to guide the conversation, we are thrilled to welcome someone who knows just how to ask the right questions. Amanda Galbraith is a partner at Oyster Group, and one of Canada’s top experts in crisis communications, and reputation management. She has spent more than two decades navigating the sharp edges of media, business, and government, advising some of the country’s most influential political and corporate leaders. I’m delighted she’s here with us today. Please join me, in welcoming to the stage, Amanda Galbraith.
Amanda Galbraith, Partner, Oyster Group
All right, we’ve got a small crowd here today, to listen to you talk.
Nicolle Butcher, President & CEO, Ontario Power Generation (OPG)
Yeah. There’s a few.
Amanda Galbraith
There’s a few expectations. We’ve also got a stopwatch here, so don’t worry. We won’t go over time, we promise. But Nicolle, you’re new-ish in the role, even though you’ve been with OPG for a long, long time. Just opening to the crowd, what has it been like for you? Obviously, there’s not been a lot going on in the energy sector right now, really low-key action. So, what’s it been like for you the first couple months?
Nicolle Butcher
Yeah, the first 90 days have been a bit different than I had originally planned on. My 90-day plan was not a provincial election, a federal election, or anything to do with tariffs. But we’re going with it. So, yeah, it’s been good. I’ve been with the company 25 years, and it’s never been a dull moment. So, I’ve been through strategy, finance, business development, spent some time in a venture capital company we had, at one point. And then have been through all three of our major divisions: fossil, nuclear, hydro. So, I’ve really seen a lot internally. And now, I would say I’m getting schooled on the external environment, and everything that comes out of the company.
Amanda Galbraith
So, speaking of the external environment, you did mention the big kind of word of the day: tariffs. The trade war has impacted OPG. How has it impacted you? And I guess, how do you think Ontario—you’ve talked a lot about Ontario becoming an energy superpower. Do you think that is still possible, in this environment? Or is it even more important?
Nicolle Butcher
I think it’s more important. And maybe I’ll start with the tariff piece. And I do want to acknowledge that it’s been very hard for people, for families—people have a high level of anxiety, not only about cost of living, but also some of the bigger political rhetoric that that seems to be going along. And I think we have to recognize that. From OPG’s perspective, I would say, we’re reasonably optimistic. So, if there’s one thing that’s going to drive the economy to be able to overcome the tariffs, and really continue to grow, it’s ensuring we have a stable, reliable energy system. And so, I assume that’s not….
Amanda Galbraith
That’s not telling us to stop, I don’t think. We’ll just….
Nicolle Butcher
Okay. I didn’t anticipate a fire drill, in the middle of this.
Amanda Galbraith
It’s extra spicy. We’ll just keep talking through it. So, anyway, you can keep—this is a good test for you.
Nicolle Butcher
Okay.
Amanda Galbraith
It’s an extra level.
Nicolle Butcher
Okay. I’ll keep going, until we’re dragged off the stage.
Amanda Galbraith
Perfect. All right. Shhhhh.
Nicolle Butcher
Nicely done.
Amanda Galbraith
No problem. I have two toddlers. So, that’s what we do. So, you were talking about tariffs, trade wars, how OPG can be resilient through that.
Nicolle Butcher
Yeah. So, I think OPG is a significant economic driver in Ontario. And so, when we look at what the future of the economy is, really, OPG can drive the economy through this tough time, by starting to do some of our projects. We spend 90% of our O&M, we have $3 billion O&M tab every year, and about $5 to $6 billion on capital projects. And so, 90% of that is in Ontario, and so, we are a massive driver of the economy in Ontario. And I think that’s what we need right now, is to overcome this, we need to put more generation on the system, and be comfortable that as the manufacturing comes, we actually have the power readily available, to drive the economy. And so, I think from a energy superpower perspective—and I think initially, when Minister Lecce came out with the energy superpower concept, it was really to send electricity to our neighbouring jurisdictions. And I think it’s taken on a bit of a bigger and broader meaning now. I think it really is about making sure we have enough power in Ontario to be prepared for the manufacturing growth that we may come, as things shift around. And, as well, from OPG’s perspective, we look at, you know, things like our Small Modular Reactor, where we are building first-of-a-kind reactor at our Darlington site. And that enables us to grow expertise both within OPG, and our supply chain, to be able to be an energy superpower externally. Everyone around the world is watching us, as we work through building the SMR. And so, I think we can really see that supply chain in Ontario that we’re using be able to grow globally, because of the experience that they’re getting right now on our SMR.
Amanda Galbraith
And speaking of SMR, you’ve had critics say, why not build large? Why not do CANDU? What is your response to that?
Nicolle Butcher
I think there’s a few things. One, I think we fundamentally believe we need a diversity of technology. And so, the SMR really provides us that diversity. It’s smaller, it can be built quicker, it’s more appropriate for smaller grids across Canada. And so, there’s a role that the SMR will always play. And there’s a role that large nuclear will play. I think also, the SMR is really the only technology that is ready right now. And what we’re aiming for is 2030 demand. So, between 2030 and 2035, we see significant demand growth that the SMR is going to be timed to actually fill. And a large nuclear plant, we could not swap them out, and actually meet that.
And then finally, and probably most importantly to OPG, is we have a view that we have to walk before we run. And what I mean by that is, we started with our Darlington refurbishment. So, we started in 2015. We set a budget in 2015, $12.8 billion. We’re now in our ninth year, seeing sort of the final pieces come together on the final unit. And we are still at $12.8 billion. And that is despite COVID, and all the costs and delays that came with COVID, despite the incredible escalation in the supply chain, we’re still at $12.8 billion. And so, we have learned an immense amount through that project. We’ve learned how to manage megaprojects, from a project management perspective. We’ve developed supply chain, so the bulk of the $12.8 has been spent in Ontario. And with Bruce Power, $25 billion into nuclear supply chain in Ontario.
And just so that we understand what that means, it’s incredibly difficult to build nuclear quality parts. You have to have a quality program, and it’s a very exacting science on the manufacturing side. And we’ve developed that. And I think we should be very proud, because we are unique in the world in having the supply chain that we have, to be able to build nuclear. And so, that’s a key piece that we developed in refurbishment. I think our partnerships, we have—I’m sure AECON is here today, and I know AtkinsRéalis is here today; they’re our partners on the Darlington refurbishment. And we formed a partnership that allows us to set aside all of the change order requests, and all the stuff that comes with a large project. And really….
Amanda Galbraith
And lawyers.
Nicolle Butcher
And lawyers. And really focus on, let’s have common goals and objectives. And we’re all pushing towards that. And we’ve been able to take that piece, in particular, directly into the SMR.
And then the final piece, I would say, that we learned on refurbishment is the trades. We have incredibly skilled trades in Ontario. And when we look at—I’ll use welders, as an example—when we look at the weld failure rate from the first unit on refurbishment to where we are today, it’s been an incredible improvement. And now, we can take those skilled trades, and take them to our Pickering refurbishment, take them to SMR, and we don’t have to start where we were with failure rates. We’re starting down here, and driving to get better and better. And those are the things that we have as a province, that really allows us to go and say, “Hey, we should be the first one.” I get asked all the time, why are we the first to build…
Amanda Galbraith
Yeah.
Nicolle Butcher
…the first-of-a-kind reactor? Like, of all the countries in the world, all the companies, why OPG? And it’s that Darlington refurbishment that gives us the confidence to go build that SMR. Once we have that done, we’ll learn lots on the SMR. So, if you compare the two, we didn’t pour any concrete on refurbishment. The concrete box is already there. We’re just basically replacing all the internals in a radioactive environment in a concrete box.
Amanda Galbraith
Sounds simple.
Nicolle Butcher
Well, that’s a complication to that. But then we move to the SMR, and we actually have to put civil infrastructure in place. And that’s new to us, and we have to learn it. And we’ll learn it on the first, and we’ll get better on the second, third, and fourth. And then that is the key piece that we take to large nuclear. And so, that’s what I mean, by walk before we run. There’s lots of things we need to learn, and really develop at home, before we’re ready for large nuclear.
Amanda Galbraith
I do want to just keep on the SMR piece a little bit, because there’s been some other questions around it. One of which is the partner, GH, is an American company. And as we had, you know—I think rightly so—very big applause to the national anthem here, with lots of elbows up, or Canada First, or wherever your slogan of choice is. How do you respond to critics saying if maybe the tech is good, maybe this makes sense for you, but it’s still a US company? Is that true?
Nicolle Butcher
Yeah, I think the way I look at it is Darlington New Nuclear Project is an Ontario project. There is no doubt about that. The patents may be filed in the US, but it is an Ontario-based project. And 80% of what we’re spending on the SMR is in Ontario; the remaining 20% largely is in Europe, Japan, for key components that we cannot yet make in Ontario. So, there’s 25,000 jobs that will be created in Canada during construction of these SMRs. There is no doubt it is an Ontario project. And people around the globe are coming to our site, to visit and understand what we’re doing, what’s making us successful, and to see how we can support them, as they look to build out.
And I think a great example of this is—and we probably have a BWXT table here somewhere—but we have the reactor pressure vessel—which, I won’t get technical, because I can’t get technical—but the reactor pressure vessel is one of the key components, and it’s being manufactured right here in Cambridge, with BWXT. And why we’re comfortable with that is because they built the most significant parts for our refurbishment, and for Bruce’s refurbishment. So, we know they have the nuclear quality standards we need, and so they’re building the reactor pressure vessels.
And we, you know, Poland, for instance, is looking at building the same GEH technology, the BWRX300, and they’re looking at our supply chain, because it’s BWXT in Cambridge that’s going to know how to build the RPVs, have built four of them already—and why would you start again, with a brand new supply chain, when you’ve got an expertise in Canada that you can rely on? And so, I think it’s, not only is it a project that will provide electricity to Ontario, it’s providing Ontario jobs, it’s providing the supply chain, and it’s providing that global expertise, that we can take anywhere we want in the world.
Amanda Galbraith
Sounds amazing. Speaking of global expertise—and I kind of want to shift a little bit to, we don’t need to get into the federal election necessarily, but I do want to talk a little bit about, there’s a conversation happening in this country, right? Around building big projects, around how we foster economic growth here. As you look to build up for the future for forecast demand growth, what does the sector need from government, and what should the next federal government do, to help advance these projects?
Nicolle Butcher
So, I guess I would start, maybe, on the permitting side. We need clarity on expectations. I feel often that we’re in a “bring me a rock” exercise, where you think you do something, and then you get, “Well, you should go consult with those guys, and maybe you didn’t do enough here, and if you just did a little bit more environmental studies….” We don’t have time for that kind of “bring me a rock” exercise. So, we need clarity on what the expectations are, and then we will meet them. We can do that with quality, and we can commit to do that. But when we don’t have clarity, you know, recognizing that these are nuclear projects that have complicated schedules, and to have a key piece of the schedule just up in the air, because you don’t really know what you need to do, is tough. So, clarity, I think clear timelines, I think that’s a key piece.
And then, I think there has to be a shift, from an Indigenous perspective. So, we do talk about Indigenous consultation in processes, but I think there needs to be a shift from just go consult with them, to what does an Indigenous-led process actually look like, and what elements of this should they actually be leading? And they’re the ones that say, “Yes, from an environmental perspective, this meets my expectation.” And so, I think looking at how we pivot some of the processes to address that, I think, is key.
I think beyond permitting, skilled trades is a key piece that I think will need support both from the provincial government, and the federal government. If you look at the $40 billion that’s scheduled to be spent on energy transition, having the skilled trades is critically important. And then I’d be remiss to not talk about financing. So, we have been—we were the recipients of a loan from the Canada Infrastructure Bank, so low-interest loan for our early works on our SMR projects. So, that has been phenomenal, in getting us going. But I think in Investment Tax Credits, we’ve been talking about them for a very, very long time. Our projects are underway, so we actually need them in place. That’s a critical piece. So, that was a long list…
Amanda Galbraith
No. That was good.
Nicolle Butcher
…probably longer than you expected.
Amanda Galbraith
Yeah, I know. That’s good.
Nicolle Butcher
But I do have a laundry list of stuff to talk to.
QUESTION & ANSWER
Amanda Galbraith
Well, it’s perfect. And I actually want to touch, just pull a little bit out of that, because we’re getting some questions in from the audience, which is great. You know, you mentioned this in here, but I want to kind of drill down. This is a question: OPG is committed to growing the economic impact for Indigenous communities—which you talked about—where do you see the greatest opportunities?
Nicolle Butcher
I would say with the communities themselves, we have decided that we were unlikely to build anything net new going forward, without an Indigenous partner. And this is not new to us. Our first Indigenous partnership was formed in 2010, 2011—somebody in the audience probably knows that exact number, but—around that time, with our hydro plants. And so, we do have a number of partnerships with First Nations, and I think those are key. And as we move forward in nuclear, figuring out how do we have that kind of a partnership with the Williams Treaty First Nation is, really, the First Nation that’s in, you know, they cover Pickering, they cover our Darlington, they also cover our Wesleyville site. So, figuring out how we bring them on this journey, and not just bring them a project and say, “Here’s the three permits I need your approval for; are they okay?” But really, what we’re trying to do on Wesleyville, in particular, is start at the very beginning, and say, we’re going to go on this journey together. So, let’s understand what the problem is. What are we trying to solve? And what’s the best way to solve it? And really start from there, and then build those relationships, and walk together on the project. So, I think that’s where we’re aiming to be. We’re certainly learning as we go. I would not say we are, we are by no means perfect, in managing these relationships. And we learn. But one thing we are proud of is being able to learn and adjust as we go. And so, that’s really what we’re focused on. And certainly, hope to have very long-term relations with Williams Treaty, in particular.
Amanda Galbraith
Okay. This is an interesting question: what are the key priorities of OPG over the next decade, aside from nuclear?
Nicolle Butcher
Aside from nuclear? So, we are pretty much across all technologies. I was proud to have an announcement yesterday that we are partnering with the Moose Cree and TTN, up in the Moose River Basin, to build Greenfield Hydro. So, Greenfield Hydro is an important piece not only for generation, but also economic development in the northern communities. And so, that is a key piece that we’re focused on. Our [Indiscernible] subsidiary is also focused on more short-term demand. So, building new gas plants—because gas plants, in the short-term, will be required. And so, we need to balance sort of how do we manage, as demand increases. Meeting that demand, with a long-term goal of being able to almost substitute the gas for nuclear, as we get out into the future. So, we really look to our [Indiscernible] subsidiary to do that. As well as batteries, they’re looking at hydrogen, and understanding what role does hydrogen actually play in the future. I do think it’s an interesting question. It’s still very expensive, I would say. But certainly, it will play a role, as we get closer to that 2050 goal of net zero.
Amanda Galbraith
You touched on this a little earlier—obviously, anytime there’s a major infrastructure project, people look at costs, and kind of roll their eyes, and think the budget’s going to be twice that amount by the end. In fact, you have proven that it’s not the case, when you OPG build something, which is remarkable. You talked a little bit about it, but can you actually, you know, talk about this challenge? How you mitigate costs? Like, how did you keep the budget flat for COVID? Because you seem to be the only entity I’ve heard of, through that entire period, that managed to achieve that.
Nicolle Butcher
Yeah, I would start first with, I agree that the cost challenge is immense. And if you look overall, $400 billion is the number that the IESO has come out with—and that doesn’t even include the distribution system. And so, significant cost into the system, I think. The government has talked about an integrated energy plan coming out, I think probably this spring. And that will help, because what we need to understand the magnitude, and we need to make sure that we are growing in a way that the costs can be absorbed by the ratepayers, and not, you know, building too much generation, and there’s no transmission there to actually get it where we need it to be, or the distribution system can’t actually deliver it to customers. We need to have that coordinated and planned.
Bringing it back down to OPG, I think we look at two things, I would say, on how we manage cost. First, is just driving efficiencies and innovation in our projects. And so, not just taking, you know, many companies when they look at a project will have a risk register, and you’ll figure out how do I mitigate my cost overruns. And we go beyond that, to have an opportunity list of what are the things that I can actually do, what innovations can I put in place to actually bring the cost down? Nothing to do with my risks.
And you know, I’ll point to a great example on our refurbishment project, where, after the first unit, we completely changed out the tooling on how you remove the tubes. Originally we—there’s two tubes, one inside the other. We took them out separately, and then we, we step back, and looked at the opportunity to can you just chop them both, and crush them both at the same time. And that’s what we ended up doing, is changing tooling, based on, you know—and OPG, we had a part in it, but I have to give the credit to both AECON and AtkinsRéalis, for stepping up to the innovation challenge, and saying “Hey, we’ve got an idea, you know, again, it means you have to change your tooling, but it could save a lot of money.” And so, driving that innovation, and not looking at a project budget as, okay, as long as I don’t hit these risks, I’m just going to carry on as I planned, and get it done. You always have to have opportunities, to offset unknown risks. And that’s how we managed to be on time with our refurbishment through COVID, and, and cost escalation is putting dollars in the bank, so-to-speak, through innovation at every step in the project. So, that’s a key piece.
The other key piece, you know, as we look at SMRs, and Pickering refurbishment, is really challenging, and looking at every opportunity on financing. And, you know, the project team, that’s the finance guys—but, but there are so many opportunities, to actually be able to go, you know, the Canada Infrastructure Bank Loan, great example, bringing down, substantially, the SMR costs. Looking at we’ve we just received $55 million from the federal government, under one of their funds, to help us do some of the front-end engineering work on, on the SMR. And so, there are ways to bring that financing cost down. And, and it’s easy—could be easy for a utility to say “Yeah, it’s a lot of work. I’m not going to go, I’m not going to lobby for all of these things.” But, you know, what it’s really important for everything that we have to get done, for everybody in the system to be going, and looking for how can I bring those costs down?
Amanda Galbraith
I want to pivot a little bit, as I think people are excited about what’s happening in nuclear right now. But one of the things no one likes to talk about—as my voice goes—is waste. You know, waste happens, when you build new SMRs and new projects. And I think everyone, “Oh, it’s fine, it’s over there,” you know. I remember, as a kid, doing the, I was with Griffin Windsor Fermi-II’s across the river, we did the duck under our desk—not sure what that would actually achieve, but it was that was the drill. So, that’s what we did in the 80’s. But what is OPG doing, to prepare to deal with this new waste, and how are you mitigating that?
Nicolle Butcher
Yeah, so I would say, of all the technologies we use to produce electricity, nuclear is the only one that manages its waste from creation to grave, and has it fully-funded. Imagine if the coal plants—and we were a coal operator, so I feel okay in saying this—but imagine if they had done that, if they’d recognized the carbon they were putting in the atmosphere, and had funded what they were going to do about that, when they were actually generating the waste. Like, we wouldn’t be here today, talking about climate change.
So, I think nuclear has, we’ve never had an issue, we monitored it carefully, and we have it fully-funded. I do think there’s actually some cool stuff about nuclear waste that maybe the audience isn’t fully aware of and, and we’re starting to understand this better, and really drive different things because of it. So, we have just started to extract Helium-3 off of, of some of our waste. And Helium-3 is used by NASA in the space program, but it’s also used in quantum computing. So, our nuclear waste is actually helping to drive quantum computing, that will fundamentally change the world. How cool is that?
Amanda Galbraith
That’s amazing.
Nicolle Butcher
And then the other thing about OPG is, we sit on the world’s largest stockpile of Tritium. And so, Tritium is a key piece that’s used in fusion—and eventually, fusion I do believe will get there—and every technology, every developer of fusion, has to come to OPG, to get the Tritium to start their reactors. And so, you know, while we talk about nuclear waste, generally, in a negative sense, I would flip it, and there are some really critical things that come out of it. And isotopes is an another great one where, you know, we use isotopes for radiopharmaceutical, cardiovascular disease, cancer—and Darlington is now the world’s single largest medical isotope production capacity. So, we have that capacity now, at Darlington, and we’ll continue to, to build on that. But we are at the forefront of the medical isotope global renaissance, if you want to call it that, and, and so, it’s really interesting, all of these side benefits for nuclear, that I think we’re just starting to understand now.
Amanda Galbraith
I want to ask you this, speaking of sort of, you know, medical isotopes, you export those—obviously, they go around the country, as well. But can Ontario—we also get things from the US, and other areas, right?
Nicolle Butcher
Yep.
Amanda Galbraith
So, can Ontario depend on the United States for enriched uranium fuel in the future? Or, as an alternative, can we promote the CANDU fuel cycle, which does not require enrichment?
Nicolle Butcher
I think we need both. I think, you know, obviously we have significant CANDU here; I think we need to continue to look at CANDU, in the future. And from the enriched Uranium, I think, you know, I have a view that, you know, fundamentally, our relationship with the US may have changed. But it’s not in their best interest to withhold enriched fuel. And so, I like to think we would get some reasonable—but there are alternatives. We do not have to have enriched fuel coming from the US. And so, we’re quite comfortable that, if something happened, we have other areas we can pivot to, and so, we’re not beholden to them for it.
Amanda Galbraith
I want to just step back a bit from, we have more questions coming from the audience. But you know, I asked you, in the beginning, how’s it’s going. You’ve been with OPG for a long time; you’re now the CEO, you’re speaking to a room of 600 people today. Are you, how are you enjoying the job—like, what’s it been like?
Nicolle Butcher
It’s been a bit chaotic—no, it it’s been fun. It’s certainly, my first three months are not what I had….
Amanda Galbraith
Yeah, eh?
Nicolle Butcher
I thought, I thought I would spend more time sort of internally, with the team. And what I realized quickly was, we have a phenomenal team, at OPG. The executive team, the senior leadership team, all the way down to the shop floor. And so, I don’t need to worry about what’s happening in the, the stations, or in operations. It really allows me to think more broadly about what’s coming at us, what’s happening in the world, and how can OPG check and adjust, to be always at the forefront of new things. And so, it’s been a bit liberating, actually. I had thought I would spend a lot more time internally worried about, you know, I came from the…
Amanda Galbraith
Yeah.
Nicolle Butcher
…Chief Operations Officer role, and I thought, you know, I’ll have to keep an element to that. And, and you know what? The team has really stepped up. And so, it, it liberates me to think about different things. And, you know, maybe they get—I drive them crazy, with the, “Hey, what about this idea?” But they’re getting over that.
Amanda Galbraith
Is there something that surprised you the most, when you said you were Chief Operating Officer you, you know, the nuts-and-bolts of the company. But…
Nicolle Butcher
Yeah.
Amanda Galbraith
…going into this role is different. So, what surprised you the most about it?
Nicolle Butcher
I think that external focus, and how much is, is truly external, you know? I looked at it, and I, as COO, I had 80 of the organization reporting to me. And I thought, well, it’s another 20, how hard can that be? I mean, [Indiscernible] looks easy.. And then, you know, I think I was a week into the job, and I thought “Holy crap, it has nothing to do with that; it is all about how do you manage the politics of it, how do you keep people calm…
Amanda Galbraith
Yeah.
Nicolle Butcher
…in the face of great uncertainty?” Like, the tariffs hit big, sort of in my third week. And so, keeping the team calm, recognizing that I don’t need to wind them up. You know, my first instinct was, I had to fire off texts to our supply chain, to our finance, everywhere. And, and I realized quickly, you know, that, that’s not my role to—actually, they’re on it. And so, I’m really sort of the calm, sober second thought, in, in providing that kind of perspective. And so, that’s what I’ve been adjusting to.
Amanda Galbraith
And what can we, as an audience, as like stakeholders, your business partners, suppliers in this room, what can they expect from your leadership at OPG?
Nicolle Butcher
I think I’m very focused on getting things done. And so, and, and I have fairly high expectations of our partners, that we stay aligned and move together and, and with safety, quality—and, and maybe, I’ll take a moment to pause on safety, for a moment. Because, you know, we’ve we had a tough day yesterday; we had a critical injury on our, our SMR site. And I think and—and I know Toronto Hydro had a fatality, a few weeks ago—and it really has given me pause, to recognize that, as an industry, everyone in this room needs to have that clear focus on safety, and figure out how do we get better at this. When we look at everything we need to build, we need to be very, very good at safety; every worker has to be able to go home at night safe. And so, I do think that’s an element that, across this room, we need to step up our game on.
Amanda Galbraith
Okay. We just have a couple minutes left, so any parting words for the audience, before we hand the podium back over to our hosts, here?
Nicolle Butcher
Well, it’s interesting. As I look around the room, I see, you know, our constructors, our engineering firms, our unions, our, you know, even our accountants, and lawyers, and bankers, and everyone in the room. And, and I think, I guess, what I ask of you is to come along on this journey. I think it’s going to take all of us in the room, to be able to get through the energy transition, and build what we need to build, in an efficient, reliable, and most importantly, safe way. And so, I, I encourage you to figure out and, and help us understand your role and, and help us get there.
Amanda Galbraith
Okay, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Nicolle, for that great discussion, and honest chat. We will—oh, stay seated, because we have some more remarks from the podium here.
Jenna Donelson
Fantastic. Thanks, Amanda; thanks, Nicolle. I’m going to invite you to take your seats. Before we wrap up, I know that, you know, the past couple months, a lot of you have been kind of looking around saying, like, “Am I being pranked?” I can confirm that, in the case of our fire alarm today, the answer is yes. So, I can give you some assurance, there. Thanks, everyone, for your patience—Nicolle, you can add that to your unexpected checklist for 2025. But genuinely, what a great conversation on the journey of OPG, where you’ve been, where you’re going. So, let’s give Amanda and Nicolle one more round of applause.
All right. Before we close, we are honoured to invite one final speaker to the stage. LiUNA, the Labourers International Union of North America, is one of our Lead Sponsors for today’s event, and a long-time supporter of conversations that matter, here at the Empire Club. They have a strong commitment to building infrastructure, supporting skilled trades, and driving progress in the clean economy transition. They continue to play a key role in shaping Ontario’s energy, and economic future. Their International Vice President and Canadian Director Joseph Mancinelli is here with me today. Please join me, in welcoming him to the stage.
Note of Appreciation by Joseph Mancinelli, International Vice-President, Canadian Director, LiUNA
Thank you, Jenna. Well, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. What a pleasure to be here, with so many captains of industry, especially in the energy sector —so many contractors, a number of my fellow associates in the labour movement, as well. I represent about 160,000 construction workers across the country—we’re the largest construction union in Canada—and have the pleasure of working very closely with a number of you in the energy sector, and we work in every single energy sector right across the country. The men and women that you see on the streets, that work in the cold of winter and the heat of summer, wearing those orange vests, are our members. And orange is our cover, our colour. Has nothing to do with the NDP, it has to do, it has to do with construction, because orange is our colour, in the construction industry, and it’s a safety colour, as well. And I have to tell you that I’m very upset that the man in the White House has tried to steal our colour.
We have a very large multi-employer pension plan in LiUNA, at about 13 billion right now, and have invested in a number of projects, some in the energy sector, many in the residential housing sector, and in fact, we have a pipeline of approximately 30,000 units that we’re building in Ontario, which makes our pension plan probably the largest developer in the province. And so, we are like-minded, as you are, when it comes to getting our jobs done on time, and on budget, as well—we understand that probably better than, than most, when it comes to doing work in the construction industry.
So, my role here today is to say thank you to Nicolle, and also to Amanda, that have done a great job, in a very insightful presentation that they gave here today. I love the words energy powerhouse, and I love the fact that we’re heading, in that direction. We have a lot of work, all of us in this room have a lot of work to do, in, in order for us to get there. But I’m sure, with the kind of leadership that we’ve seen today with Nicolle, I’m sure we’ll get there a lot sooner than we expect. So, thank you very much, Nicolle, for your presentation, and for all of you being here today. Thank you.
Concluding Remarks by Jenna Donelson
Thank you, Joseph, for those insightful remarks. Thank you, for your ongoing support of the Empire Club. Thank you to our sponsors, again, to our panellists, to all of you, for joining us here today. I’d just like to recognize one more special group of people that we have in the room. We have our students and our young leaders here—we’ve got students from Queen’s University, and from Humber College. We’re so glad you’re here with us today. Thank you, for being part of this.
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I also hope that you will join us for two of our upcoming events. On April 15th, we’re going to have an insightful discussion on “The AI Revolution: What’s Next for Law Finance and Accounting.” So, this event will bring together a panel of experts to explore the challenges, strategies, risks, and opportunities that come with integrating AI into the professional services. And on May 6th, we have a new event we’re launching, “Keeping Business Clean: Combating Corruption in a World of Change.” This discussion will feature key business leaders, and experts, on the critical role of the private sector, in combating corruption. Tickets for both events are on sale now, and I hope you’ll join us.
As a club of record, all Empire Club events are available to watch and listen to on our website. A recording of this event will be available shortly. Thank you all for being here today. I wish you a wonderful afternoon ahead. This meeting is now adjourned. Thank you.
